Iguana Don
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This is a continuation of a thread in the "General Equipment Discussion", feel free to join in.
Don
Don
Dive Computers & O/W
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Don,
Where do the training agencies stand on this issue, Surely, e.g. PADI, there are performance requirement to complete dives during an open water course using said agency's own tables?
I know there is a computer that is an approximation to the PADI tables, are courses restricted to this?
Is there extra time given to explaining the differnce between diving a computer and a the tables? are safety curves etc.. explained to them? There is a very simple diagram that we use that explains the fundamental difference between tables and computers do they get this sort of information?
The more I actually think about this subject the more horrified I become.
Jon T
Where do the training agencies stand on this issue, Surely, e.g. PADI, there are performance requirement to complete dives during an open water course using said agency's own tables?
I know there is a computer that is an approximation to the PADI tables, are courses restricted to this?
Is there extra time given to explaining the differnce between diving a computer and a the tables? are safety curves etc.. explained to them? There is a very simple diagram that we use that explains the fundamental difference between tables and computers do they get this sort of information?
The more I actually think about this subject the more horrified I become.
Jon T
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Iguana Don
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Jon,
That is all taught, but what I'm stating is that we are planting a seed for "Gotta Have a Computer". I don't think the agency should advocate computer use at this stage of instruction.
The manufacturers give the shop a deal to buy so many computers to use in classes, this plants the seed then after O/W certification, they buy one and never again use their tables. I've seen this happen time and time again.
Don
That is all taught, but what I'm stating is that we are planting a seed for "Gotta Have a Computer". I don't think the agency should advocate computer use at this stage of instruction.
The manufacturers give the shop a deal to buy so many computers to use in classes, this plants the seed then after O/W certification, they buy one and never again use their tables. I've seen this happen time and time again.
Don
Don,
Firmly agree with you.
I am more interested in exactly how the instructors portray the computer whilst they are doing open water dives. You always see o/w course students doing a days diving and then at the end of the day doing all their calculations.
All it takes is one careless comment to the effect of 'don't worry about the tables untill later, the computer will sort everything out' said during the day, and then all the good teaching of tables etc is negated. From their very first diving day they become dependent upon a computer.
Good business sence from the manufacturers and the dive shop. However, good business sence and conscienciousness never co-incide do they!
Jon T
Firmly agree with you.
I am more interested in exactly how the instructors portray the computer whilst they are doing open water dives. You always see o/w course students doing a days diving and then at the end of the day doing all their calculations.
All it takes is one careless comment to the effect of 'don't worry about the tables untill later, the computer will sort everything out' said during the day, and then all the good teaching of tables etc is negated. From their very first diving day they become dependent upon a computer.
Good business sence from the manufacturers and the dive shop. However, good business sence and conscienciousness never co-incide do they!
Jon T
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Iguana Don
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Jon,
I was just sitting here thinking, would it be possible for an O/W student to progress up through PADI's new Tech/Rec cert. and not be profiecent in the tables? Divemaster course excluded.
I was just sitting here thinking, would it be possible for an O/W student to progress up through PADI's new Tech/Rec cert. and not be profiecent in the tables? Divemaster course excluded.
Almost certainly.
If you have a consciencious instructor, you might need to know the buttons for accessing the dive planning functions on the computer, otherwise yes it is quite possible.
frightening.
Haven't got the tech rec info infront of me, but I am sure that if you can do the PADI o/w with a computer, provided it is nitrox compatable, I am sure you can do the PADI Nitrox course with a computer.
Now, isn't there a thought. After the o/w course the shop guides you to a nice non nitrox computer, as that is what you are qualified for. Then you do the nitrox course with a shop computer, and then, as you can't use the tables, you have to go out and buy a nitrox computer as well.
Hum.
Jon
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Iguana Don
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Dr. Jon,
You know there are more Doctors on this board than there are at an AMA convention. About 10 at my last count.
We must be doing somenthing right.
Don - Just-A-Diver
You know there are more Doctors on this board than there are at an AMA convention. About 10 at my last count.
We must be doing somenthing right.
Don - Just-A-Diver
Don't know if its the same in the US, but the more senior doctors in the UK lose the Dr, and go back to being Mr (unless they become Prof of course)
Not a real doctor, I'm a sitting-round-in-a-lab-avoiding-work-all-day research type doctor.
I suspect it is to do with the ability to ask questions and desire for more information that we are given that attracts doctor type people here.
Jon T
Not a real doctor, I'm a sitting-round-in-a-lab-avoiding-work-all-day research type doctor.
I suspect it is to do with the ability to ask questions and desire for more information that we are given that attracts doctor type people here.
Jon T
Dear all
The theory test I took for the OWD consisted of 50 questions. Eight of the questions dealt with the tables, so I would think that one could not pass the test without "table literacy".
Personally, I would not want to dive without knowing how to use the tables, because anything can happen to a computer...damage, loss etc.
gozmutti
The theory test I took for the OWD consisted of 50 questions. Eight of the questions dealt with the tables, so I would think that one could not pass the test without "table literacy".
Personally, I would not want to dive without knowing how to use the tables, because anything can happen to a computer...damage, loss etc.
gozmutti
Yes, but this is what underlies the whole post, you have done enough diving to know what is going on, and you are table literate. The problem is those people that use a computer from the start never get any real practice at using the tables, and never realise what a fundamental part of diving they are missing.
I think for the PADI exam the pass mark is 70 or 75 percent, which means you can get between 35 and 38 on the test and still pass (ie between 12 and 15 wrong answers) - please correct me if I'm wrong - I am only a DM after all. - a complete tables klutz could pass. Plus the fact that most people have a good read before the final test assuming it is going to be harder than it is will ensure that people pass.
For this post 'table literate' means more than knowing how to use them. It is the experience to know when you hear some-one say they are off to 30m for 60 minutes without decompression that they are WAY off the mark (ballpark figure - I don't have the tables here with me, but 30m would have a PADI NDL of somewhere in the order of 25 minutes)
Jon T
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