dive buddy got bent

[vladimir]

That's not close to my recollection. I believe the situation was as follows:

a doc checked her lungs and decided she seemed okay, but expressed an interest in contacting one of the more qualified doctors on staff

So we agree that she was examined by a doctor.

The OP's primary complaint was that DAN did nothing to assist in expediting care.

So we agree that there was no consultation between DAN and any physician at the hospital.

Those two points were not known to Jim Lapenta and Zen Diver, at least, because the original post was deleted.

 

[DandyDon]

Your situation is probably a little different, as you're buying DAN insurance in Australia as an Australian resident. Most hyperbaric treatments in Australia are covered by Medicare (our compulsory govt health insurance for the oversea readers).

I suspect the 200km rule is to do with ambulance cover in Australia.

Oops, I forgot/failed to notice. DAN does vary some by home regions.

One thing I noticed while re-reading the fine print, is that there is no coverage is there is alcohol involved, or when "flying after diving after a period less than recommended by the most recent DAN guidelines for flying after diving". Something I can't recall reading people talking about.

Pasc

How interesting. NA to American DAN insurance, by the way.

Yes I suspect the differences in our coverage is related to the public cover and the fact that hyperbaric chambers are not as few and far between as in other places in the world. Insurers will not pay to cover costs that are covered by another plan as the treatments in Australia are.

I should stop being so subtle.. and say what I mean... you need to read your coverage and it may not be the same from one country/continent to another. I think that was Don's point as well and yes Don I should reread the information... my memory isn't what it used to be:shocked2:

Dan makes a good point tho.. we have the numbers for DAN on our tags on our gear but we don't have it in our mobile phones.

I would like to thank the OP for posting a thread that is making people think because clearly he is not the only one who expected DAN would play a different role!

And I think we see them do so in a severe cases, but from the collective memories of those who read post 1 before he took it down - well. We gripe about medical and insurance costs in the US as it is; imagine how much more it could for valet medical services.

 

[Hetland]

So we agree that she was examined by a doctor.

Not sure that it matters, but I thought it was a triage nurse that did the initial check of lung sounds...

 

[bsee65]

Not sure that it matters, but I thought it was a triage nurse that did the initial check of lung sounds...

As I understood it, a triage nurse made an initial determination upon check-in, though nothing was stated with regard to any examination at that time. There may have been one, or the determination may have been made simply based upon the patient/OP describing the symptoms and status. I'm not a medical professional, but I've been in ERs more than a few times, and I've been prioritized based upon my description of the situation more often than not.

Also as I recall, it was a doctor who examined her lungs approximately 2.5 hours later, though the doctor was apparently not fully confident with his/her familiarity with dive related issues and wanted to seek a consult with one of the on-call doctors who do have that experience. To me, that seemed an opportunity to tell the doc to save time for both himself/herself and colleague by calling DAN who was allegedly at the ready to provide just such a consult. Not sure if that conversation occurred or not. I know I would have pressed that particular issue in the same situation.



For all who say that DAN did the right thing, please answer the following questions:

1. Does DAN have any responsibility per contract to contact ER or other medical professionals to assist in getting you coverage? (I believe you are saying no, though my read of the quotes presented here would have me say yes)

2. Does DAN have a reputation for doing the above, whether they are contractually obligated to or not? (I believe the answer is yes)

3. If a company has a reputation for regularly performing a service, whether they are obligated to or not, is it reasonable for a good customer to expect the same service when they need it? (I believe the answer, again, is yes)

Also, there seem to be a few people saying that DAN should have done more, if not everything the OP expected. I can appreciate that everyone thinks their own opinion is fact, but it's hard to accept that the answer here is as cut and dried as you would have it if there are people who believe otherwise. I think it is fair for someone interested in the actual answer to reserve a final judgment until asking the question of DAN directly. I would encourage the OP to make that call and see what answer DAN management provides.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

So we agree that she was examined by a doctor.

So we agree that there was no consultation between DAN and any physician at the hospital.

Those two points were not known to Jim Lapenta and Zen Diver, at least, because the original post was deleted.

Nope. I never got to read the original post. It seems that the OP has a bit of a temper and tends to have hissy fits. From his actions as I understand them in the incident, and his reactions to posts here, he seems that way. This is my guess as to his removing the original post.

Not sure that it matters, but I thought it was a triage nurse that did the initial check of lung sounds...

Who knows, at this point?

I hope that he finally stops being so defensive and listens to the comments and advice given here. It may just save his or his gf's like one day. With their chosen poor dive practice, they are an emergency/accident waiting to happen. I hope this changes soon, for their sakes.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Tonka- we are a little hesitant to talk to DAN at the moment as they frown on walking out of an ER untreated. It is often an excuse to stop any possible claim payments. It worries us. Granted the ER never had any information more than a DOB and a name. I will be shocked if I see a bill from them.

Obviously i have been shopping around for a different insurance (if there is one better) ran into this. Just wish it was more recent. Do You Have the Right Dive Insurance?: Undercurrent 06/2006

This is his post very early in the thread. No treatment. If they never got more than a DOB and a name, then walked, no doctor saw him. This story changes throughout the thread, it seems.

 

[diverrex]

One thing I noticed while re-reading the fine print, is that there is no coverage is there is alcohol involved, or when "flying after diving after a period less than recommended by the most recent DAN guidelines for flying after diving". Something I can't recall reading people talking about.
Pasc

How interesting. NA to American DAN insurance, by the way.

To clarify the NA may refer to the "flying after diving" exclusion but it does not apply to the diving after drinking exclusion. This does apply in North America. See # 9 below from the DAN exclusions.

 

[jhelmuth]

For all who say that DAN did the right thing, please answer the following questions:

1. Does DAN have any responsibility per contract to contact ER or other medical professionals to assist in getting you coverage? (I believe you are saying no, though my read of the quotes presented here would have me say yes)

2. Does DAN have a reputation for doing the above, whether they are contractually obligated to or not? (I believe the answer is yes)

3. If a company has a reputation for regularly performing a service, whether they are obligated to or not, is it reasonable for a good customer to expect the same service when they need it? (I believe the answer, again, is yes)

Also, there seem to be a few people saying that DAN should have done more, if not everything the OP expected. I can appreciate that everyone thinks their own opinion is fact, but it's hard to accept that the answer here is as cut and dried as you would have it if there are people who believe otherwise. I think it is fair for someone interested in the actual answer to reserve a final judgment until asking the question of DAN directly. I would encourage the OP to make that call and see what answer DAN management provides.

[1] DAN does not assit in getting coverage. DAN assists in identifying the best and closest treatment and with any necessary transportation - all within the scope of the initial contact and verbal assesment with the degree of the emergency. The DAN sponsored insurance will provide for the actual financial coverage.

[2] I can't answer this because (A) I really don't have data to back it - and (B) the "coverage" question was not "clear" on coverage vs what DAN will do to help.

[3] "Good" customer or not, it's reaonable to expect the contracted service to be provided as agreed upon (see the contract). The way you word this implies you are trying to skew the answer to be what you want it to be...


Now why don't you answer my question... What did DAN do wrong (in this case) as it relates to their contractual obligation?

 

[Hetland]

This is his post very early in the thread. No treatment. If they never got more than a DOB and a name, then walked, no doctor saw him. This story changes throughout the thread, it seems.

Here is the ER portion of the OP's original post. I added the bold to point out that they did see a doc, but it was in the waiting room, apparently they were not admitted.

She was asymptomatic during the transport but was never off O2. When we arrived at the hospital were were triaged by the ER staff (RNs), because she was asymptomatic on O2 she was placed on the bottom of the list. I did request a NRB and an O2 tank as during all this time she was breathing through a reg. We sat in the ER for 2.5 HOURS and was still not seen my an MD. I contacted DAN at hr 1 and asked if they had contacted one of the MDs who's names they had given me. DAN informed me that they could/would not do that and it was the
responsibility of the ER MD to do that after their assessment. I informed them that we had not currently been seen MD. They voiced that that troubled them but stated there was little they could do. I asked if they had spoken with the hospital we transported to on their recommendations and the answer was no.

I made a call to DAN after approx every hr of wait time in the ER. I also tried to contact the MDs DAN had told us about and was shut down by there answering service. One of them was on call but they do not page them for patients. It has to be at the request of someone higher up the food chain than us. I asked DAN to call them on my behalf but they stated they could not. If those doctors were aware of our presence in the ER i will never know. At the 4 hr mark of 02 administration, we personally made the decision to d/c it. Our thought process was that we were going to soon be leaving this ER and we needed to know her condition. It was at this time that I also indicated to the ER staff that we would be leaving shortly.
They told me that there was an ER doc who was a diver who wanted to see her but would they had no beds available. I asked when that might be and there were unable to answer so we continued our plan. 15 min later we saw a doc in the waiting room who listen to her lungs (no neuro) and our dive profiles. She informed us that the real problem with DCS is AGE and that my buddy was probably fine. She said she wanted to find out who were the HBO docs at the hospital talk to them. I told her their names and gave them the phone number to their answering service. I even let her know which one was on-call that night.

At about 30 min off O2 my buddy had an ache return to her shoulders but no other symptoms. When we placed he back on O2 the symptoms did not resolve. They ache never escalated like it had before. At an hour after the MD had seen and never seeing anyone again, us we decided to leave to hospital. I do not know if she was ever able to speak with anyone. Guess I never will.

We went home off O2. We had plenty with us to make it through the night if any problems returned with any altitude changes on the drive home. The next morning she had no shoulder pain or residual signs.

 

[DandyDon]

To clarify the NA may refer to the "flying after diving" exclusion but it does not apply to the diving after drinking exclusion. This does apply in North America. See # 9 below from the DAN exclusions

Thanks. Yeah I was thinking of hungover divers, a common reason for vacation hits - not intoxicated divers.

Does anyone think that DAN should and could micro manage such cases from afar? The ER wouldn't allow that! Some might request Dan's help but Dan has no ability to force the ER doc to take the calls, follow suggestions, etc.

If he has a beef, it's with the ER, not DAN, but with all beds full I imagine the entire staff was quite busy, maybe even exhausted. They were unlucky on how busy the ER was perhaps, but chose self treatment over waiting their turn. Glad they got away with it.

I will admit that I get pissed in similar situations, but I try to take several magazines and my laptop for amusement - and I would be more bothered over a GF being ignore. I am also guilty of self treating until that approach fails. Still blame the guilty...!​