Dive Boat "pros"~ what is their role?

Your paid dive buddy~ who are they?


  • Total voters
    135

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

As a MSD and DIT, I want a boat (entry/exit,etc.) orientation and site description. I want to know where to go to collect live shells for my collection.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I know, but if I say molluscs some think I mean squid, octopi, etc....
 
I have worked for several years as a DM in Grand Cayman so I thought I'd answer this from a slightly different perspective. These are basically my duties when taking out certified divers. Rules are different if I am teaching.

I will provide a dive site briefing which provides details on the maximum depth of the site, suggested dive profile, emergency recall procedures, local laws, communication, and points of interest as the key points. This was a part of my DM training.

I will offer to be an in-water guide if you want.

I will check to see that everyone has a buddy.

I will point out strange and interesting critters if I'm in the water.

I will follow Standard Safe Diving Practices.

I will slowly ascend from every dive. That is true even if you do your imitation of a submarine launched cruise missile and/or breaching whale.

I will plan my gas consumption to have sufficient air for a safety stop.

I will plan my gas consumption to even have enough air to have one person breathing from my octo during a safety stop.

I will offer to assist you with gearing up, buddy checks, entry and exit. You learned how to do all this during Open Water training so I assume you already know how. I offer to help because some people like it.

I will enforce local laws. That means no gloves, no taking any marine life on scuba, no spearfishing. In theory authorities could seize the boat if I let you do stuff like that. That would really bum me out because I'd be out of a job.

I will check whether your tank valve is on before you get in the water. You trust me to disassemble the valve and service it. You can trust me to know which way is on and which way is off.

I will be prepared to render first aid, CPR, or emergency oxygen. I check the equipment every day to be sure emergency supplies are in working order.

I will attempt to render assistance if you are in distress, but...

I will not guarantee to save your bacon if you do something spectacularly stupid. I told you in the briefing that the bottom of the wall is 4000 to 6000 feet deep - trust me on that. I learned never to make two victims when there is only one to begin with.

I will not physically prevent you from doing something spectacularly stupid. I was not trained in underwater combat and am not prepared to subdue you during a dive.

I will not check your air for you. You are responsible for that. You learned how to check your air in your Open Water training.

I will not force you to follow my dive plan. You learned how to make a dive plan in your Open Water training. Plan you dive and dive your plan. Sound familiar?

I will not be your buddy unless we specifically agree on that prior to the dive.

I will not be offended if you call be DM, Divemaster, hey dude, or by my name. I am actually an instructor but that really does not matter to you unless you want to take a class.

I will not think for you.
 
I have worked for several years as a DM in Grand Cayman so I thought I'd answer this from a slightly different perspective. These are basically my duties when taking out certified divers. Rules are different if I am teaching.

I will provide a dive site briefing which provides details on the maximum depth of the site, suggested dive profile, emergency recall procedures, local laws, communication, and points of interest as the key points. This was a part of my DM training.

I will offer to be an in-water guide if you want.

I will check to see that everyone has a buddy.

Snip

I will not be offended if you call be DM, Divemaster, hey dude, or by my name. I am actually an instructor but that really does not matter to you unless you want to take a class.

I will not think for you.

So, hang on...one minute..... what you are saying is that you don't make tea????
 
Not being a mega-super diver, perhaps I am missing the point of these threads, but truly I expect different things from my 'paid buddy' in different situations, so I didn`t check a box. Dive professionals work in a service industry, and that:s something that many of the posts in this and similar threads seem to forget. I:ve seen quite a few posts about tipping DMs but what exactly are we supposed to tip for? We tip for service, no?
Ask a ten lawyers about the OBLIGATIONS of a DM. I`m sure that you`ll get ten different answers but we all know that lawyers aren`t human. Is that the baseline that you want to use if you are a DM? Service isn`t about obligation. Waiters are service personnel and those that meet their obligations to me usually get lower tips than those who go beyond. I haven`t been a DM, but I`ve waited tables and there is definitely an art to service. It`s about knowing people and anticipating their needs and desires so that you can assist them in effortlessly enjoying their dining experience... or their dive.
This holds true whether your customer is a newly minted diver with poor skills (see the many threads on poor agency training standards), or a tech-master who resents your presence in the same ocean while they`re diving in it. A good DM should be adaptable to either situation. That means hanging back and letting tech-master do their thing, or helping newbie with even the most basic skills.
While I`m sure that the latter example goes beyond the strict obligation of a DM, it`s an example of good service, safety, and perhaps even a bit of pride in one`s job. For people who don`t mind or even enjoy service jobs, there are rewards beyond wages. For those who work service to pay the rent, I`m sure that it sucks but if it sucks for you it`s guaranteed to suck even worse for the person you are supposed to be serving. Ever dived with a burned-out guide in a new location? I have. Thank you, good bye; I`ll find another shop for the rest of my stay.
As I read the many opinions in these threads, and having read through the options in the poll above, I`ve found the thinking too linear; too black and white. Some people need more help than others and some people need help in some situations but not others, and some people never want help and some people shouldn`t even be in the ocean, but if one is paid to guide such a diver, shouldn`t the DM at least do their best to give them what DMs get paid for; get them out alive, and perhaps even show them a good time? DMs aren`t paid to dive, they are paid to assist others in diving, be that guiding them around or (as I`ve seen many times with malnurished Japanese women) towing them around.
If diver ineptitude is the issue, that goes back to the old training standards discussion. While I know YOU never let an inept diver get a c-card, someone is doing so! Perhaps the correct choice is to give up your PADI or SSI or whatever affiliation and find the strictest agency around and only work with their divers. Does GUE have their recreational cert yet (that`s rhetorical, in fact I could care less)?
As to obligation; if you are a DM then you know that you will, at times, be working with divers who have insufficient skills. Do you have to help them with buoyancy? No. Should you? I guess that depends if you take any pride in your work. 'Diving' for other divers occasionally comes with the territory, although I`m sure there is no legal obligation to do so. Should any agency certify an inept diver? Of course not. Do they? You bet `cha. It`s part of, what I like to call, reality. Deal with it. Will lawyers create the perception that DMs need to be omniscient and omnipotent during a dive to protect all in there group no matter what? Hmmmmm. I bet they will if they can make a buck at it. Isn`t that what DMs carry insurance for? I can`t claim to know everything about DM liability, but that should be covered during DM certification class I think. Lawyers, being lawyers, will argue this or that, but then again that`s their job, so...
What I`m really trying to say is; different people have different expectations of what their DM should be doing for them during a dive. What DMs SHOULD do is based on the needs of the customers and/or the communicated commitments agreed upon before the monetary transaction. Some dives put you out on your own with a DM onboard as a `safety diver` or whatever. Fine, as long as I know that`s the deal before I sign up. There is room, however, for a bit of professionalism and genuine good service among inwater DMs which, it should be hoped, could inspire a DM do do a bit, or a lot more for their customers to help them enjoy their dives.
I`m not railing against DMs in any way. I travel a lot and almost always go on guided dives. I`ve been fortunate enough that all but two of the DMs I`ve been with have serviced low-maintenance divers like me and completely inept divers, often at the same time, and usually quite well.
Liability is a legal issue, so best left to the legal system. Lawyers will argue and harangue but that`s just what they do. If there are unfair practices or standards of liability in place that is for Agencies, Dive Professionals and Lawyers to sift through. DMs do have a measure of responsibility for their charges in most situations. Exactly how much seems to be the point in question. As we`ve seen recently, laymen (like me) have varied opinions and that`s ok. It might be useful in ruminations such as these, however, if we can step back a bit, and try not to apply one uniform standard to every situation. That one standard being MY standard, of course.
 
Do you have to help them with buoyancy? No. Should you? I guess that depends if you take any pride in your work.

Pride or not, exactly how should a DM help a diver with his/her buoyancy underwater? I'm curious as to what exactly you mean by this. Do you mean keeping track of buoyancy, as in monitoring a diver's depth?

I have worked for several years as a DM in Grand Cayman so I thought I'd answer this from a slightly different perspective. These are basically my duties when taking out certified divers. Rules are different if I am teaching.

I like your "rules" for the most part, except for the one below.

I will check whether your tank valve is on before you get in the water. You trust me to disassemble the valve and service it. You can trust me to know which way is on and which way is off.

I have had a DM turn my air off, not on, and in my view if a DM messes with my tank valve, they say goodbye to the tip. We all know how to turn our valves on, and it's one of the simple duties DM's really shouldn't have to worry about. Now, honestly, I will forgive a slight turn of the valve by a DM (a quarter to half turn or so), but if they do more than that then my tip money stays in my wallet.
 
I was diving the Spiegel Grove and the boat crew turned OFF my isolation valve on my manifold and one of my tanks after I took the time to properly set up my gear. As a DM myself, I know that divers can forget to turn air on or forget little things.

We just have to remember that as divers, we only have ourselves and our buddy to rely on to ensure that the air we depend on to breathe underwater flows properly. NEVER RELY ON ANYONE ELSE TO CHECK YOUR GEAR!! If you do and then get in the water, you are asking for trouble. And if you cant check your own gear and feel comfortable after you do it, you should not be diving on my boat in the first place

Just my $.02
 
but if they do more than that then my tip money stays in my wallet.

I think this sums up a lot of the atti-tude in this thread; CBD's looking for any reason to not tip.

Nearly every charter boat I've ever worked on in Hawaii, the Captain has every tank valve opened before most guests have their wet suits zipped. The reason for this is by the time you get to dive charter Captain you have seen enough entries with air off that you will never leave it to the guests. It's nothing personal, it's just automatic.

I am so glad I specialize in vacation divers (not by choice, just by location) 'cause if I had to work with all you real divers I'd be a bitter, angry A-hole,:shakehead:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think this sums up a lot of the atti-tude in this thread; CBD's looking for any reason to not tip.

CBD? Sorry, but I'm not sure what that's supposed to stand for. It might surprise you that I've rarely had an issue with a DM or crew member, the only real annoyance I've had was the time my air got shut off, that's about it. The majority of the time there's no reason for me not to tip, and I'm not "looking for" reasons not to.

Nearly every charter boat I've ever worked on in Hawaii, the Captain has every tank valve opened before most guests have their wet suits zipped. The reason for this is by the time you get to dive charter Captain you have seen enough entries with air off that you will never leave it to the guests. It's nothing personal, it's just automatic.

I understand it's not personal, it's business, and I'm sure a diver jumping in without his/her air on can be quite a pain to deal with. However, I don't need or want a DM checking my gear when I setup, that's my job and hopefully my buddy takes a glance or two at my setup as well. Most of the boat crews I've dealt with don't even bother checking my tank valve or asking me if I've got my air on, perhaps it's just a different attitude than the Hawaii charters.

I am so glad I specialize in vacation divers (not by choice, just by location) 'cause if I had to work with all you real divers I'd be a bitter, angry A-hole, :shakehead:

Wow, so with the limited information you've gathered about the other divers here, through a rather emotionless online forum, you've already determined that we would make you a "bitter, angry A-hole".

Thanks for the heads up, that way if I'm ever in Hawaii I'll have to watch out for the boat crews that will suddenly become angry because of my attitude towards diving. I guess I'll just have to alter my routine from sitting back and enjoying the view of the water on the ride to location, setting my gear up quietly with my buddy, waiting patiently in line to enter the water and again to get back on the boat, enjoying the trip back to the dock, packing up my gear, tipping, and leaving to something more friendly, that way I'll avoid making them bitter.:shakehead:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Back
Top Bottom