Disturbing trend in diving?

[Eric Sedletzky]

A dive agency can devise standards that teach you to use a computer on a dive. It does not have the power to require you to buy one or use one once you are certified.

A dive instructor can teach students to use the dive computer and recommend computers for them to purchase, but that instructor does not have the power to require you to buy one or use one once you are certified.

What do you propose that agencies and instructors do instead?

I'm not really proposing anything, it is what it is.
I'm still kind of flabbergasted that this has become normal in some instances, especially after reading so much here in SB about Shearwaters and gradient factors and the hair splitting about different algorithms and how some won't use this or that, and then there's always the table bashing threads. I just figured everyone was so into computers and their personal dive profiles and safety.
Then when I glanced at a couple threads about people not wanting to know anything because they were scared if they knew how deep they were they'd panic, or the friend of a friend of a friend that ran out of air at 97' after a few minutes into the dive but had no computer so the guide sent them up with their buddy while buddy breathing but semi blew their stop, and one diver got bent.

I have to say after thinking about it more and seeing the trends in social behavior in general, it really doesn't surprise me that much after all.
I'm not proposing to do anything about it, I'm not the scuba police, nobody is.
It was merely an observation.
There is no string if dead bodies in the aftermath,
-so-
I guess it's "Dive and let dive"

 

[Diver-Drex]

All I can say from reading all this is I don't know if all this deviance is being taught (or not taught) in OW or left out of WRSTC standards, or if people are choosing to just not dive according to their training. I'm referring to people with supposed full OW training, not DSD.
Leaving out a personal computer or some other depth and timing device is not to any standard as far as I know.
So now I'm beginning to understand why some divers seek out something like GUE fundies especially if when all they've seen is this kind of crap. It makes perfect sense that they figure the only way to excel past this sh_t show is to go to an agency and a community that has some integrity.
If this is all they see I can't say I blame them.
I had no idea that diving had fallen this low.
Normalization of deviance.
Is this how they think they will keep diving going?
Is this what vacation diving looks like on life support?
Or is this a product of a foreign dive destinations' economy on life support?

Time for me to go hide under my kelp bed again.

It is the individual diver’s responsibility to do what they were taught and certified to do. Fundies is as much a product of selection bias as it is great training. People who want to be better divers take the course because they have decided to be better divers. Their actions after the training will reflect that choice.

It’s like getting a driver’s license. No one is taught to speed, blow red lights and drink during driver’s ed or the test but they choose to do these things after they have their license. Is the driving instructor or state that issued the license accountable for this?

 

[The Chairman]

No, not a gear problem. Here are two examples from this past year.

It was a joke, John. I even used 3 smilies.

I don't know if all this deviance is being taught (or not taught) in OW or left out of WRSTC standards, or if people are choosing to just not dive according to their training. I'm referring to people with supposed full OW training, not DSD.

Laziness leveraged with indifference, from both the students and their instructors. Is it deviance if it's the new norm? I see so much hubris among the various agencies, that their system is the 'best'. The results are opposite of their stated goals.

We could join the elite by becoming an instructor.

Today, I'm meeting with a representative of RAID. They started with rebreathers and didn't like the quality of the students they saw, so they decided to enter the OW arena. I like what I've seen of their students so far. The proof is in the pudding, after all. I might become an instructor again. I'm healthy enough, and I have some peeps wanting to be taught by me. We'll see.

 

[Allen-1]

No, not a gear problem. Here are two examples from this past year.

• Dives with an absolute requirement to follow the DM and not depart from that dive in any way, with a second DM in the end to make sure of it.
• This example is strange. The dive operator I have been using (with some reluctance) in Florida requires a dive buddy, unless you have solo certification and have signed a separate solo waiver. I have the credentials, but I have not signed the waiver--my fault completely. Two days ago I did a dive to a deeper (but still NDL) wreck, with a second dive along a shallow reef. On the first dive to the wreck, the DM did not seem to care that I was on my own, and I had a great dive. On the second dive, because of the need to go in groups, I had to join one of the other groups--I could not solo the shallow reef without that waiver. The DM looked at my equipment (personal steel tank, BP/W, bungeed alternate, two tech computers) and decided that my ideal match for that dive was an instructor, his young student, and the student's father. We had to head to the surface after a half hour. I delayed as much as I could and still stay with them, and I still reached the surface with 2,000 PSI. We got on the boat, and I got my gear fully packed before the other groups began to be picked up.

I don't know where in FL you were diving - my (limited) experiences in FL have been more like @Divin'Papaw described in post 85.

I went out with Pura Vida this past weekend out of West Palm Beach. (2) deep dives in the AM, (2) shallower reef dives in the PM, Sat and Sun. So, (4) distinct trips.

Excellent briefings regarding emergencies, boat rules, dive sites followed by safety checks before each dive.

It was made clear that you could stick with the guide, or go off on your own - that each person on the boat was a "certified" diver and that they were responsible for themselves.

My brother's an instructor, I've done every dive before this with him as my buddy. This was definitely different for me, but the parameters were clearly defined by the crew, and within my comfort level.

I also knew this was how it was going to be, because before I made my trip reservations, I asked the shop what their policy was regarding people who showed up without a buddy.

Add in (4) sharks, a number of groupers, and wreck penetration to go along with the drift diving and it was an excellent weekend.

Highly recommend Pura Vida Divers.

 

[Nemrod]

Along the Gold Coast, especially up WPB and Jupiter way, there is usually a DM and you can stay with them or not. The further south you go and especially into the Keys you run into nanny state shops that insist on leading you about by a ring in your nose. There is a dive store/op down in Key West who may be the worst nanny bunch yet encountered in my then 54 years as a diver or since.

 

[Leatherboot69]

Scubaboard just seems to be full of people complaining that other people don’t dive like they do. Scuba diving isn’t that dangerous, and within NDLs with a DM it’s not that difficult. Some people just want to do a few dives and look at pretty fish. They don’t want to be skilled, and they’re willing to pay a professional to keep them safe when they’re on holiday, just like people pay tandem skydiving instructors or mountaineering guides. That’s their business. Mass tourism keeps the diving industry alive - no tourism=no dive shops, no dive manufacturers, no boat operators. And I’m ok with that.

 

[Barefoot_Lawyer]

Scubaboard just seems to be full of people complaining that other people don’t dive like they do. Scuba diving isn’t that dangerous, and within NDLs with a DM it’s not that difficult. Some people just want to do a few dives and look at pretty fish. They don’t want to be skilled, and they’re willing to pay a professional to keep them safe when they’re on holiday, just like people pay tandem skydiving instructors or mountaineering guides. That’s their business. Mass tourism keeps the diving industry alive - no tourism=no dive shops, no dive manufacturers, no boat operators. And I’m ok with that.

I’m fine with it too, but everyone beyond DSD gets an autonomous certification when clearly “autonomous” is not the right description for a lot of people. My wife is like this - she’s AOW but if you asked her to plan her own dive it would not go well. Luckily, she has me as a buddy on every dive but she is not Autonomous and doesn’t care to be.

Aside from my wife, I have zero interest in diving with a bunch of sheep, or being assumed to be one of the sheep. The unfortunate thing is that dive operators are dumbing down the dives to account for the lack of knowledge and skill of the average diver showing up for their boats.

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

Aside from my wife, I have zero interest in diving with a bunch of sheep, or being assumed to be one of the sheep. The unfortunate thing is that dive operators are dumbing down the dives to account for the lack of knowledge and skill of the average diver showing up for their boats.

I think that's undoubtedly true in some cases, but in many I've found they will divy up the group by experience so that everyone can have a good dive; a lot of time they work for tips after all...

 

[Jakeev]

Not a good practice

 

[The Chairman]

Scubaboard just seems to be full of people complaining that other people don’t dive like they do.

Or don't post like they do???

Most people come to to learn. Those who post are like thhose who write letters to the editor. That, and those who have questions. I think many of us ascribe to dive and let dive!