Disclosure of health conditions to dive ops/fitness (thread split

[uncfnp]

It's worthwhile to not group all 'medical conditions' together. Consider these...

And that is my issue with the RSTC. IMHO its does a poor job of screening for true medical conditions that have the potential to impact a diver's risk and other irrelevant medical issues.

 

[KeithG]

Because some medical events that are more survivable on land are less survivable underwater?

So sky diving is okay?

My subtle reference to cruise ships also precludes any type of emergency medical assistance - on a relocation cruise it could be a week or more away...

There are a very large number of past times for which immediate emergency medical treatmeat is not available. Scuba is not that special. We need to get over ourselves...

 

[KeithG]

Lorenzoid is right. Scuba is very different from those other hobbies. Have an asthma attack on the golf course and you can whip out your inhaler and be OK. Have a seizure on a golf course and you should be just fine after it has run its course. Both of those would likely be fatal on scuba. Be pregnant while golfing, and it is no problem. Be pregnant while diving and you could go through life dealing with a severely handicapped child (we don't know for sure on that).

Remember that in most cases, the only time you need the medical form is with instruction, and the primary reason is informed consent. For example, most pregnant women intending to get dive instruction would have no idea that the child could be at risk.

Having that seizure at 70 miles an hour on my way to work will be way more deadly. For way more people.

 

[boulderjohn]

Having that seizure at 70 miles an hour on my way to work will be way more deadly. For way more people.

That's correct, and that is why people with known seizure disorders are not allowed to dive.

Here is the first sky-diving school I checked--they require that you complete a medical form: Pre Skydive Checklist | GoSkydive

 

[Lorenzoid]

So sky diving is okay?

My subtle reference to cruise ships also precludes any type of emergency medical assistance - on a relocation cruise it could be a week or more away...

There are a very large number of past times for which immediate emergency medical treatmeat is not available. Scuba is not that special. We need to get over ourselves...

doctormike's comment says it far better than I could ('cuz he's a docta). There are lots of things that can happen on a boat with even the most minimal medical care available that are more survivable than the same things happening underwater. Even out in the wilderness, your chances are better than if the same thing happened while you were breathing through a regulator 100 feet below the surface. Dunno about skydiving, but if I had to give a clever answer, I might say that a person who remains conscious long enough to deploy a chute might still have a better chance of survival than the person who has 100 feet of water between him and the surface.

 

[Charles2]

Here is the first sky-diving school I checked--they require that you complete a medical form: Pre Skydive Checklist | GoSkydive

Just so happened that you selected a Skydiving operation in the United Kingdom. In the United States, parachuting is governed by the United States Parachute Association. I could be mistaken, but I believe that self-certification of medical fitness is all that is required in the USA. It's buried in the multi-page waiver that you fill out before you can jump.

 

[dmaziuk]

From your perspective perhaps.

People who are told by their doctors that they shouldn't be diving, dive anyway, have a medical emergency consequently put others in danger. Be honest. If you have Yes's then have the doctors note to back it up. If you can't be released from the doctor then don't dive and risk your life and worse, the lives of others.

Puhleeze. I score at least 6 yeses and 2 maybes on RSTC form. THE OTHERS ARE GONNA DIE!!! -- because I'm told by my doctor I'm OK to dive, so my life is not at risk.

 

[2airishuman]

While I could cite 3 examples, I don't feel comfortable sharing the specifics as these aren't my stories to share. You'll either have to dismiss what I say or take it on faith that this happened because I say it did. Not sure why someone would lie about this, but anything's possible.

I don't think anyone is lying. I would just like to understand the whole story in context.

I do think creating complications for the people who survive us is our responsibility, however.

... If, on the other hand, the form asks to disclose any medical issues, then I find it problematic to leave that blank. Known medical issues help rescuers/first responders to do their jobs. Putting first responders at greater risk is unacceptable.

All of that being said, I can totally see why someone would leave this information out so they can dive.

I am fortunate in that I don't have any medical conditions that make this discussion relevant to my situation.

That said, there is more at work than "lying on the form so you can dive." Information disclosed on the WRSTC form isn't, by law, protected or confidential, and could be more broadly disclosed than appropriate. Someone who checks one of the "yes" boxes is supposed to have a physician's statement. How recently? At what cost to the diver? From what sort of physician? For someone whose medical condition is unremarkable and stable, is it reasonable that they seek out a physician who is knowledgeable about diving every year and perhaps go through (and pay for) a battery of tests that would not otherwise be necessary? Why does the charter operator have the standing to require this?

Diving isn't special enough or unique enough to have the expectation that established divers with well-understood, common medical conditions that are well controlled, need to be disclosed in detail to every operator. Any more than people should be expected to disclose their medical history to commercial airlines prior to every flight, or before hiking a 14er, or going duck hunting at a resort.

 

[dmaziuk]

Information disclosed on the WRSTC form isn't, by law, protected or confidential, and could be more broadly disclosed than appropriate.

"W" is for "World" which includes places with privacy laws. I suspect over in rightpondia a dive op might actually have to have your written consent every time they take your form out of the filing cabinet.

 

[NYCNaiad]

...I would like to hear if people have had success with communicating with a dive op well in advance and providing them with all of the necessary documentation that illustrates that they are clear to dive. Might this be a good project for DAN?

I have done this many, MANY times. I send in the paperwork in advance & let the dive op know I need a bit of help. I usually do around 6 weeks worth of dive trips a year to a wide variety of dive ops both local & international though mostly international. I never had a problem except once. One single time, the dive op questioned my fitness to dive. I let them know we could get on a call with my doctor and/or I could provide any other documentation they needed...& they decided that the documentation I had already provided was enough. Year after year, the whole process has been incredibly easy & when I get to the location, the dive op is more than willing to assist since I communicated with them in advance making my dives better than they would be if I lied on the form or just sucked it up.

The way I understand it,
- In this century 90% of people over 50 (if not 40) would answer "yes" to at least one of the questions on the WRSTC form.
- Medical conditions that are likely to kill you are not specific to diving. Diving may be more likely to trigger them than, say, eating lunch, but it really is a crap shoot.
- Neither the dive op nor the first responders are going to treat you based on your answers on the WRSTC form. They're going to administer CPR, oxygen, and rush you to a hospital or pronounce you DOtS,

All of which makes the form entirely pointless for what you're talking about.

The form doesn't necessarily do a great job of screening everyone, but my point is that you & your family can be screwed if you lie on the form. Which is why I don't lie.

I don't think anyone is lying. I would just like to understand the whole story in context.

I am fortunate in that I don't have any medical conditions that make this discussion relevant to my situation.

That said, there is more at work than "lying on the form so you can dive." Information disclosed on the WRSTC form isn't, by law, protected or confidential, and could be more broadly disclosed than appropriate. Someone who checks one of the "yes" boxes is supposed to have a physician's statement. How recently? At what cost to the diver? From what sort of physician? For someone whose medical condition is unremarkable and stable, is it reasonable that they seek out a physician who is knowledgeable about diving every year and perhaps go through (and pay for) a battery of tests that would not otherwise be necessary? Why does the charter operator have the standing to require this?

Diving isn't special enough or unique enough to have the expectation that established divers with well-understood, common medical conditions that are well controlled, need to be disclosed in detail to every operator. Any more than people should be expected to disclose their medical history to commercial airlines prior to every flight, or before hiking a 14er, or going duck hunting at a resort.

I'm sorry I can't provide more context, but these aren't my stories to tell.

And yes, some of this is a crap shoot & you'll have to make the decision for yourself if you ever get to that point. But for me, I prefer to tell the truth on the form, get the medical ok, send in the paperwork ahead of time & make sure everything is copacetic before I dive so I'm covered & my family's covered.