Disappointed

[Heatheroe]

I really do appreciate all of the responses. I had no idea I would feel such a community spirit from divers all over the place. I hope I can find that here locally as well. Subaboard and you all ROCK!

 

[Heatheroe]

Ok, the shop owner said he would really try and work with us to get certified before our trip. We tried to do the pool session this past Saturday. Instructor preferred we not use wetsuits but we brought our shorty wet suits any way. Air temp was 60 degrees, water probably low 70s, strong wind at 10mph+. Once we got to the shop he gave other students full suits and told us to use our shorties since we brought them. We drove to the pool (small, OUTDOOR hotel pool, extremely cloudy, 5 feet deep) and had to get in w/o wetsuits to do the swim tests. There were 5 people in a tiny pool trying to do laps, no mask or snorkel allowed. I kept swallowing water from the wake of the people beside me and i was freezing. Then treaded water for 10 minutes. Then put on dry wetsuits over wet skin. Not fun. Wetsuit zippper broke so I was exposed more than anyone. Donned all equipment in water. My primary reg felt like it was stuck. It took ALOT of effort to get air. Instructor wasn't concerned and said use the octo which was a cheesy reg that released bubbles right in front of my face. Once in the water we immediately started with the mask clearing skills. By this time 3 of us were shaking uncontrollably. Four out of five people quit. We went back to the shop. Owner said the next pool session was also outdoors and that he wouldn't be indoors until November. We're leaving for vacation October 20th so won't be certified and unable to dive. The check out dives are in local quarries or lakes yet he doesn't rent booties, gloves or hoods. I am not buying those as I will never use them. I DON'T WANT TO DIVE IN COLD WATER! We're debating quitting the whole thing and losing $600 because we think the program is poorly run, unorganized, owner is condescending and puts down any equipment that is not top of the line. We're not required to have wetsuits but he looked at my shorty (sea elite, I know basic but I only use it for snorkeling) and said it would not be up to par for his program. We only have 4 months to complete certification (SDI) from what he said and now it's getting to be winter here so I don't know what we will do. We can finish the class, take the test and complete the pool session then get a referral somewhere warm for the cert dives but of course that will be more money. He has pissed off everyone in our class with his attitude. I think he is inherently a nice guy but some of the things he says are out of line. Classes were unorganized with much unnecessary personal stories, videos, interruptions.

We definitely picked the wrong shop.

 

[Jax]

Oh, Heather, please don't give up!

Why won't this guy give you a referral? I sure hope you report him to his agency. All that is just wrong.

 

[doctormike]

Four out of five people quit..... the program is poorly run, unorganized, owner is condescending .... He has pissed off everyone in our class with his attitude.... [but] I think he is inherently a nice guy

Wow, either you are a very tolerant person, or there is no competition for dive training in your area!

I hate to pile on in these types of threads, because of course we are only hearing one side of the story. However, if the situation is really as you described it, it sounds like the least that you can do is let the agency know how things have gone (as well as Yelp and Scubaboard, as you have done). You might not be the first one to run into this problem.

Asking people to do skills in low 70 degree water for a length of time without exposure protection is just wrong, IMHO.

 

[Heatheroe]

Thanks Jax and doctormike. I really do not want to bash anyone and I haven't mentioned the shop's name or owner and won't unless it's in a private message. I am trying to be open-minded and see things from both perspectives.

I'm just so new to this and thought I asked all the right questions before we signed up but now I know I did not. That is mainly why I posted here, to get more info on how things are normally supposed to go when you get your OW certification.

We still plan to get certified but we'll probably have to wait until our next vacation.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Ok, the shop owner said he would really try and work with us to get certified before our trip. . . .

While it's great that he's going to "try," trying won't ensure you are satisfied with the result.

I would go see the guy in person. I would ask that he make a commitment to you, in writing, that he will get your certification completed. I would ask that he commit to providing a full refund if he can't get your certification completed. I would make sure you have a referral in hand for your currently completed work, and that he would update the referral you hold as each additional component is completed (some less reputable shops withhold referrals as an extortion tactic).

I would ask him to get out his calendar and tell you exactly when he's going to do each component. I would stress that you don't care if another class is scheduled or not, that he took your money and it needs to be done even if you're the only student in the class.

Be polite, but firm. In the meantime, find other shops in your area who can work with you.

Frankly, this seems ludicrous to me.

As for the pool conditions. In 70* water, you should absolutely have a wetsuit on. There is no excuse for that one.

 

[doctormike]

While it's great that he's going to "try," trying won't ensure you are satisfied with the result.

I would go see the guy in person. I would ask that he make a commitment to you, in writing, that he will get your certification completed. I would ask that he commit to providing a full refund if he can't get your certification completed. I would make sure you have a referral in hand for your currently completed work, and that he would update the referral you hold as each additional component is completed (some less reputable shops withhold referrals as an extortion tactic).

I agree that the OP has not gotten good customer service at the very least. And I'm not an instructor or a shop owner, but I think that few instructors would give a money back guarantee regarding training. People don't complete training for a wide variety of reasons unrelated to the instructor (inability to master basic skills, loss of interest, lack of time, etc..), so I'll bet that no one would give you THAT sort of deal.

I think that what you can expect is that once you have put down your money, the instructor/LDS will make a good faith effort to provide you with a reasonable schedule, and extra sessions if necessary for students that are having problem keeping up. I totally agree about the referral, although I have only heard of referrals for the OW portion of training, not for the pieces of the non-OW training that has been done. I think that if you go to another shop, they would probably start from scratch if you needed more than just the OW dives.

Thanks Jax and doctormike. I really do not want to bash anyone and I haven't mentioned the shop's name or owner and won't unless it's in a private message. I am trying to be open-minded and see things from both perspectives.

Well, it doesn't sound like you are an unfair or unreasonable person. For those of us who work with customers (clients, patients, etc..) in any way, sooner or later someone is going to comment on the experience (positively or negatively). I don't think that anyone has the right to expect a dissatisfied customer to keep their opinion to themselves, especially in the Internet era...

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Hate you had an bad experience with THAT instructor, but sounds like he's just in it for the money and doesn't care about really getting students certified. I'm new to diving, but isn't the rules of diving, not to dive if it's too cold, if you have faulty equipment, or feel uncomfortable with the dive. With the bad experience you're having with him, would you really want to try open water with him? He's already shown that he has no concern for his students. you may not want to post his name here, but you should post it with the certifying agency and the BBB. I just did mine in March of this year, and the class room and pool session was done over 3 days, it took me a little longer because I couldn't get by the float test. But the shop worked with me until I did pass it. and also the shop where I went for my OW referral was willing work with me too if I hadn't.

 

[buddhasummer]

We started our class session on September 7th. We had our third (and what we thought to be our last) class last night. When we tried to schedule the pool and 2 days of OW check out dives, there was only 1 pool session available for the rest of Sept and no OW sessions for October. We leave for our vacation to Andros (slated to have the 3rd largest barrier reef in the world) on October 20th. Needless to say, we will not be able to dive now. The intructor knew we had a time limit as do most other people in our class so I'm quite upset that he didn't try and get us in the pool or quarry before now. I asked several times if we would have time for it all and he said "we'll do what we can".

We don't get to go on vacation more than once a year so I'm very disappointed about this. Of course we don't want to rush it but I think he could have been more acommodating for $600. If we do a referral in Andros we'll be paying $750 more for the cert dives.

Am I over-reacting? Or should I look on the bright side, maybe we'll try and plan another dive vacation sooner rather than later?

I dont think you are over reacting, maybe under reacting I would have gone postal... but I would also have made 100% sure before paying for the class that it would be completed prior to my trip. Either way I think it's lame service. Good luck.

 

[Colliam7]

Ok, the shop owner said he would really try and work with us to get certified before our trip. . . . small, OUTDOOR hotel pool, extremely cloudy, 5 feet deep . . . By this time 3 of us were shaking uncontrollably. Four out of five people quit. We went back to the shop. Owner said the next pool session was also outdoors and that he wouldn't be indoors until November. . . . The check out dives are in local quarries or lakes yet he doesn't rent booties, gloves or hoods. , , , We're debating quitting the whole thing and losing $600 because we think the program is poorly run, unorganized, owner is condescending and puts down any equipment that is not top of the line. . . . Classes were unorganized with much unnecessary personal stories, videos, interruptions. We definitely picked the wrong shop.

Three comments, generally cosistent with the responses you have received: 1. There are always two sides to every issue, I appreciate your efforts to be balanced. Unless you have painted a very inaccurate picture (which I doubt), you did pick the wrong shop to meet your needs. If you booked in August for an October trip, you did so far enough ahead. If you made your travel schedule and needs clear to the owner, he had the initial option of saying - 'Yes, I can work with that.', or 'No, I cannot meet your needs, and I suggest you pursue training elsewhere.' As stated, there is no guarantee on certification, but your description outlines a situation where there is simply not any reasomable attempt to provide adequate training. 2. Although your specific location in NC is not noted in your profile, I presume you are somewhere in the Charlotte area. I would be surprised if there was not a shop with a) an instructional staff adequate in size, and b) access to indoor pool facilities, appropriate to accomodate your needs. 3. At this point, THERE IS STILL TIME to accomplish you goals, and do it in a safe, competent manner. But, it is very unlikely that you can do it through the current shop, based on your descripotion of the operation. You need a private class - yes, more expensive, but also more flexible and tailored. Although you have already invested in the course through the current shop and are affiliated with a particular agency, I would suggest you not let that limit you, and find a shop, irrespective of agency affiliation, that can accomodate a private class, with pool time available. IF you really want to get certified before the trip, then spend the money, and meanwhile negotiate with the shop owner for some level of refund.

As one example of what could be done - in another part of the state - in the the Raleigh-Durham area, there are a number of shops, among which probably three do the majority of training, in terms of volume. If you walked into one of the larger shops this morning and asked for a private class with a schedule that would permit certification (assuming your performance supported it, of course) in time for your trip, I can assure you it could be done, and time arranged for an indoor pool. It might require flexibility on your part, and would not be 'cheap', but it could easily be done. So, in an equally large, metropolitan area like Charlotte, I cannot imagine that you could not get it done.