detroit diver
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Yeh, I saw that. Okay, I decided to walk there w/ my doubles. I'll call if I'm going to be late. Then again, I don't know how long my cell phone will work without a charge....
DIRF, A Sobering Experience
- Thread starter Lost Yooper
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Yeh, I saw that. Okay, I decided to walk there w/ my doubles. I'll call if I'm going to be late. Then again, I don't know how long my cell phone will work without a charge....
psionicdfw
Registered
I am new to this board so excuse my criticisms or dismiss them entirely...
Reading this thread makes my head hurt. Diving is supposed to be fun. I understand most of the people that post to this site are tech divers, and thus must be highly competent to dive safely during wreck penetrations and caves, hovever there seems to be a distinct haughty "I am more reverent than thee" 'tude concerning the most excrutiating minutae in much of this site. This thread is the worst I have yet seen.
I dive for work. We survey benthic habitats for the government. I am no "expert" diver, but I have strived to improve my skills with each dive. I take the risks associated with diving seriously, and I too worry about the people I have seen go through OW class and pass. They are likely to dive once a year, and barely remember any of the skills from year to year.
No one on this board is "better" than any of these people. Tech divers just have the desire and wherewithall to jump into diving more seriously. If an adult wants to do something stupid and die as a result, that is their choice. Being a "Gladys Cravitz" will not make your average vacation diver take safety more seriously.
I have toyed with taking some tech classes. After reading some of the threads on this board I am not sure I want to. If the level of lame criticisms, backbitting, and preachyness here is any indication of the amount of enjoyment I am likely to get out of it, I will gladly remain in my >130' world.
Peace,
Pete
Reading this thread makes my head hurt. Diving is supposed to be fun. I understand most of the people that post to this site are tech divers, and thus must be highly competent to dive safely during wreck penetrations and caves, hovever there seems to be a distinct haughty "I am more reverent than thee" 'tude concerning the most excrutiating minutae in much of this site. This thread is the worst I have yet seen.
I dive for work. We survey benthic habitats for the government. I am no "expert" diver, but I have strived to improve my skills with each dive. I take the risks associated with diving seriously, and I too worry about the people I have seen go through OW class and pass. They are likely to dive once a year, and barely remember any of the skills from year to year.
No one on this board is "better" than any of these people. Tech divers just have the desire and wherewithall to jump into diving more seriously. If an adult wants to do something stupid and die as a result, that is their choice. Being a "Gladys Cravitz" will not make your average vacation diver take safety more seriously.
I have toyed with taking some tech classes. After reading some of the threads on this board I am not sure I want to. If the level of lame criticisms, backbitting, and preachyness here is any indication of the amount of enjoyment I am likely to get out of it, I will gladly remain in my >130' world.
Peace,
Pete
detroit diver
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Pete,
First of all welcome to the board. You've found one of the best boards on diving, regardless of what you think of this thread.
But I couldn't disagree with you more. Most of the people on this board are not technical divers. I don't have stats on that, but that's the feeling that I get. With that in mind, I think that most people on this board strive to make themselves a better diver in whatever capacity that they seek. And yes, it's definately supposed to be fun.
Unfortunately, some of the stuff being taught in open water is lacking in the most basic of skills that people need to dive SAFELY. That might be due to the instuctor, or maybe due to the agencies need for volume sales, but that's another thread.
That said, there are some of us that believe that there is truly a better way to dive. Some may be more vocal and "in your face" than others, but the bottom line is that we are on the same page. You can characterize that as "more reverent than thee", but I look at it as our ability to show others that they can be safer divers. A lot of the vocal shots are from people that either don't want us bringing up our way of diving, just want to argue, or don't want to improve themselves-just because that's the way someone taught them.
Yes, there are "better" divers than others on this board. That's where the flow of information comes from-the experienced can pass it down to those that wish to learn. Those that don't can just shut it off. I would hope that by learning something from here that we can head off the "adult wants to do something stupid and die as a result, that is their choice" type of individual. Technically you're correct, but let's at least get the information to them.
I don't know what/who Glady's Cravitz is, but I do honestly think that people will take notice if a point is driven home often. And yes, on their next dive in the Caribbean, local pond, or outback lake (are there any outback lakes??<G>)-maybe they'll do something more safely after reading the banter on these boards. Maybe not, but for me it's worth the effort. I know that I've learned a ton from the more experienced, and as I become more seasoned, I hope to pass this knowledge on-even to people that I'll never meet in person.
Take your tech classes, but keep an open mind to what others have to offer. You can disagree with them, but give it a look. You might just find a better way to dive, have fun, and be safe.
Dive safe,
Jack
PS Hey, I didn't even mention GUE or DIR once!!
First of all welcome to the board. You've found one of the best boards on diving, regardless of what you think of this thread.
But I couldn't disagree with you more. Most of the people on this board are not technical divers. I don't have stats on that, but that's the feeling that I get. With that in mind, I think that most people on this board strive to make themselves a better diver in whatever capacity that they seek. And yes, it's definately supposed to be fun.
Unfortunately, some of the stuff being taught in open water is lacking in the most basic of skills that people need to dive SAFELY. That might be due to the instuctor, or maybe due to the agencies need for volume sales, but that's another thread.
That said, there are some of us that believe that there is truly a better way to dive. Some may be more vocal and "in your face" than others, but the bottom line is that we are on the same page. You can characterize that as "more reverent than thee", but I look at it as our ability to show others that they can be safer divers. A lot of the vocal shots are from people that either don't want us bringing up our way of diving, just want to argue, or don't want to improve themselves-just because that's the way someone taught them.
Yes, there are "better" divers than others on this board. That's where the flow of information comes from-the experienced can pass it down to those that wish to learn. Those that don't can just shut it off. I would hope that by learning something from here that we can head off the "adult wants to do something stupid and die as a result, that is their choice" type of individual. Technically you're correct, but let's at least get the information to them.
I don't know what/who Glady's Cravitz is, but I do honestly think that people will take notice if a point is driven home often. And yes, on their next dive in the Caribbean, local pond, or outback lake (are there any outback lakes??<G>)-maybe they'll do something more safely after reading the banter on these boards. Maybe not, but for me it's worth the effort. I know that I've learned a ton from the more experienced, and as I become more seasoned, I hope to pass this knowledge on-even to people that I'll never meet in person.
Take your tech classes, but keep an open mind to what others have to offer. You can disagree with them, but give it a look. You might just find a better way to dive, have fun, and be safe.
Dive safe,
Jack
PS Hey, I didn't even mention GUE or DIR once!!
psionicdfw
Registered
I appreciate your welcome and your patience to my comment which was essentially a flame. I agree that there are people on here who are highly knowlegable and skilled divers. That is what brought me to the site, and was not my intention to refute that. Nor was it my contention that PADI, NAUI, et al are teaching perfect curriculum. In fact, I agree that the classes are dumbed down - both in skills and knowledge in a concession to commerce. The PADI Scuba Diver (I think that's the right class) designation is really scary in its "get em in and get em out" brevity. I also hear tables may be taken out of the classroom and only computers used - yikes.
Although I would like to hear what is being currently ommitted that, "is lacking in the most basic of skills that people need to dive SAFELY." To me that is unneccesary hyperbole on your part.
I can't say I know an enormous amount about GUE and DIR, but from what I have seen, it is very impressive. If I wasn't saving up for a trip to Australia in November I would take the class being held in Austin next weekend.
My point (and yes, I am finally getting to it is that what should be a fun site has had any mote of joy sucked out of it by one-upmanship, and a "no one could possibly take safety more seriously than me" attitude. Read the first post in this thread. Take a step back and tell me it doesnt sound slightly pathetic in its "well I guess I will have to give up diving forever" hand wringing.
GUE teaches very challenging classes - as diving should be taught. But who are they teaching? Is it Mom and Pop from Peoria who are going to dive 50 feet or shallower on their trips to the Bahamas once a year? No, it's tech and cave divers primarily. Most people could not pass their stringent fitness standards alone (including many of the tech divers I have met - can you say "lay off the doughnuts?" hehe)
To sum - we have more fun diving for work than it would seem many of the people who post on here have when they dive recreationally. I just don't get spending all that time and money on something and then making it a competition as to who is the most hardcore...it's adolescent in my mind.
For instance the section of this thread about the fin-pivoting with the lame ruse "the question was a trick"...their point was lame, seemed motivated by sheer "see I am smarter than you" childishness, and did not contribute to the thread.
It really was not my intention to attack all these people, and I have now managed to alienate several members. I just really enjoy my diving, both recreationally and occupationally and it makes me a bit discouraged to see people make it into a competition rather than a free and open exchange of information. But maybe that's just human nature.
just my 2 cents....
Pete
and fyi - Gladys Cravitz was the nosy neighbor on "Bewitched". Think: "Abner!"
Although I would like to hear what is being currently ommitted that, "is lacking in the most basic of skills that people need to dive SAFELY." To me that is unneccesary hyperbole on your part.
I can't say I know an enormous amount about GUE and DIR, but from what I have seen, it is very impressive. If I wasn't saving up for a trip to Australia in November I would take the class being held in Austin next weekend.
My point (and yes, I am finally getting to it
is that what should be a fun site has had any mote of joy sucked out of it by one-upmanship, and a "no one could possibly take safety more seriously than me" attitude. Read the first post in this thread. Take a step back and tell me it doesnt sound slightly pathetic in its "well I guess I will have to give up diving forever" hand wringing. GUE teaches very challenging classes - as diving should be taught. But who are they teaching? Is it Mom and Pop from Peoria who are going to dive 50 feet or shallower on their trips to the Bahamas once a year? No, it's tech and cave divers primarily. Most people could not pass their stringent fitness standards alone (including many of the tech divers I have met - can you say "lay off the doughnuts?" hehe)
To sum - we have more fun diving for work than it would seem many of the people who post on here have when they dive recreationally. I just don't get spending all that time and money on something and then making it a competition as to who is the most hardcore...it's adolescent in my mind.
For instance the section of this thread about the fin-pivoting with the lame ruse "the question was a trick"...their point was lame, seemed motivated by sheer "see I am smarter than you" childishness, and did not contribute to the thread.
It really was not my intention to attack all these people, and I have now managed to alienate several members. I just really enjoy my diving, both recreationally and occupationally and it makes me a bit discouraged to see people make it into a competition rather than a free and open exchange of information. But maybe that's just human nature.
just my 2 cents....
Pete
and fyi - Gladys Cravitz was the nosy neighbor on "Bewitched". Think: "Abner!"
... you're new here and I doubt that you have done any research on Lost Yooper as a poster so your missing the real point is... well... understandable.
LY for a long time was a very vocal proponent of DIR and had adopted as much of it as possible in his own technical diving.
He was considered by many on this board to be an excellent spokesperson for DIR as well as source of definitive DIR information.
Not only that... LY is a great guy and had a very nice way of putting things without any of the *I'm better than you* stuff so many are offended by.
Even though he had been in contact with the principles of DIR getting his questions answered he had no formal DIR training.
For LY taking the DIRf was therefore a step backward to do the fundamentals... and it became a very humbling experience for him when he did not breeze through it. His post was an incredibly humble admission of that fact.
Perhaps with this little background you might want to go back and re-read the first post in this thread and make a re-assessment.
LY had my respect before... even more so now... and I am sorry that he is not able to post to the board as much as he used too. He is a very valuable resource.
sheck33
Contributor
welcome to the board. No i for one didnt feel attacked, you can think what you want. What is currently being ommitted that is lacking in the most basic of skills that people need to dive SAFELY are bouyancy skills, buddy awareness, air management and personal fitness. As for mom & pop that dive to 50 feet once a year, those divers are scary, they lack proficiency and confidence to be safe divers. GUE has stringent rules for diver fitness for good reasons, these rules should be more universally applied. Certifying that smoke so much they are panting by the time they have walked to the waters edge is ridiculous, i see it happen all the time. Certifying 10 year olds that can just barely carry their own equipment is insane, they cant help themselves let alone anyone else.
so, have fun diving
ElectricZombie
Contributor
Well said Sheck.
leadweight
Contributor
Psionicdfw,
You understand the attitude of this board completely. It is the typical internet thing where a few people with similar opinions take over a forum or newsgroup. In this case it is a bunch who may be DIR technical divers. The most DIR thing about them is that they have GI3's holyer than thou attitude. Let the flames roar.
Leadweight, from Texas (the third coast).
You understand the attitude of this board completely. It is the typical internet thing where a few people with similar opinions take over a forum or newsgroup. In this case it is a bunch who may be DIR technical divers. The most DIR thing about them is that they have GI3's holyer than thou attitude. Let the flames roar.
Leadweight, from Texas (the third coast).
Dude, why are you so angry? There are a ton of very active people on this board who aren't DIR, myself included.
What's your problem, eh? Calm down.
Don't you have anything better to do than to post messages insulting the DIR guys here all day? Post something useful already.
Geez.
:baby: :banging:
Not everybody has an attitude and I think the board is quite well balanced between DIR and non-DIR people. Besides, whatever argument you are having, we already had it a few times already. Go dive your Transpac and stop trolling..
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