Dir-?

[Red Rat]

Thanks for the offer of asking me to read the article posted, but I don’t need to read it. I have been there and dived it to Toad Hall. I suggest you curb your attitude a bit and stop knocking the achievements of others. I was not as you suggest, "DIR bashing". I was merely pointing out that there is a lot of diving going on in the world that isn't shouted from the rooftops as it is in other parts of the world. Your posts have probably done a great deal more harm to DIR by your tone and failure to do any research at all and blindly following the words of others.

For those who are interested; Cocklebiddy is a 6.26km long cave that is about 94% underwater. The dry sections are quite high in CO2 and are a serious obstacle to progress when diving this cave. And as I previously stated when it was first dived no scooters were used. (they subsequently have been though). Western Australia has quite a few caves that are bloody long and well worth a look if you don’t mind a bit of hard work as it is pretty hard going to get to the water in a fair number of them.

 

[detroit diver]

Red Rat once bubbled...
Thanks for the offer of asking me to read the article posted, but I don’t need to read it. I have been there and dived it to Toad Hall. I suggest you curb your attitude a bit and stop knocking the achievements of others. I was not as you suggest, "DIR bashing". I was merely pointing out that there is a lot of diving going on in the world that isn't shouted from the rooftops as it is in other parts of the world. Your posts have probably done a great deal more harm to DIR by your tone and failure to do any research at all and blindly following the words of others.
.......

Okay, here's your post (and BTW I believe your very first post on this board):

As far as distance from air is concerned; Cocklebiddy in Western Australia has been dived to a length of 6520m (or about 21 000 ft)

The first guy to hit the 6500m mark swam it. No scooter and no chest beating.

There is a expedition planned for next month to hopefully add a bit more line. There probably won't be anyone jumping on the net and telling everyone how good they are if they succeed either.

If you had left out the "no chest beating" and "There probably won't be anyone jumping on the net and telling everyone how good they are if they succeed either" parts, your post would have been informative and possibly interesting to some. But you threw that in for a reason. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what that reason was. If it wasn't DIR bashing, please tell us who and what you were referring to. You used the phrase "blindly following the words of others". I think we've seen that before. Isnt' that one of the mantra of the anti-DIR crowd? Kool-aid? GI's mouthpiece? Religious cult?

My posts have just set the record straight, and I'll let those that know me from my past posts decide on my intentions and civility on this board.

You made a great impression with your first post.

 

[Red Rat]

But you threw that in for a reason.

Yes I did include the points you mention in my initial post for a reason. That being, I have noticed a recent trend in diving that annoys me. There seems to be a growing number of people who think the net is the sole repository of diving knowledge. A lot of quality diving occurs throughout the world by divers who don’t feel the need to jump on the net and tell others what they have done. Duncan posted one example, Dave Apperley bottoming out the Pearce Resurgence is another. These guys just get on and dive. If you feel that is a shot at DIR then fine, that is your choice. As it is to base your thoughts on Cocklebiddy from one article without ever speaking to anyone who has been there or diving it yourself.

Hopefully you now see my point. Have a happy day, it sounds like you had a bad weekend

 

[Braunbehrens]

Red Rat once bubbled...


Yes I did include the points you mention in my initial post for a reason. That being, I have noticed a recent trend in diving that annoys me. There seems to be a growing number of people who think the net is the sole repository of diving knowledge. A lot of quality diving occurs throughout the world by divers who don?t feel the need to jump on the net and tell others what they have done.

What a hilarious post. Aren't you doing the exact chest beating on the internet that you were just decrying 3 sentences ago?

If there is great diving going on that is not on the net, then so what? It's not widely disseminated, so most people won't know about it, and it's probably only relevant to the people who are doing it. What is your point?

I think your point is to do some chest beating and to make it look like this accomplishment is the same or better as what the WKPP has done. The fact is, in terms of diving, it isn't. In terms of caving in general, it might be, or maybe in terms of logistics, or whatever.

There really is no need to make a big deal. So some guys down under did some good diving. Cheers! The WKPP does some great diving. Cheers!

You accuse DD of being in a bad mood, but in fact you are the one who is "annoyed" by the internet chest beating, and you are the one who is trying to diminish the accomplishments of others.

I suspect you are really annoyed that the WKPP has done some incredible diving, and that the stuff you are talking about simply isn't as impressive.

Instead, maybe you should simply state what was done, and have it be widely disseminated on the net. After all, it is an accomplishment, and lest we forget, diving is NOT a competitive sport.

I for one would be interested in reading about it....it's certainly a lot more impressive than any diving I've done.

I would not, however, be intersted in a bunch of comparisons between the stuff you are talking about and what the WKPP has done. That, IMO, would make for a very boring and dumb read.

Just my .02 of course, no offense intended.

 

[David Evans]

I'm a recreational diver and an SSI instructor that teaches recreational diving. I'm also a pretty serious photographer. I'm not a technical diver, and I don't teach technical diving. Yet I dive DIR.

The point of DIR diving for most of us isn't that diving DIR allows us to dive 5 miles into a cave system!

The point is that it streamlines our rigs, emphasizes excellent buddy skills and dive planning, improves our finning and communication in the water, and improves our safety underwater. Yeah, it was developed for the most demanding diving environments on earth. But the application of DIR for most people is in the recreational space.

I don't always Do It Right, but I try, and my training has made ME a much better diver than I was before.

So I dive DIR for very, very selfish reasons. I don't silt out as much as a used to. My buddies and I know where we are at all times during the dives. We communicate using a common language, and we know what equipment we each have, where it is, and how we use it.

It makes diving for ME much more enjoyable, because I am more relaxed underwater than I was before. And that means a LOT to me as a recreational diver.

It's also VERY nice that as I progress into more advanced diving, I don't have to un-learn anything or reconfigure anything. The system scales to meet my needs as I grow as a diver.

I have lots of buddies I dive with who are not subscribers to the DIR school of thought - some of them are way better divers than I am. I also know a few divers who claim to "DIR" but in reality don't. We're all individuals that have our own quirks, regardless of the agency we trained with, after all.

But the point is - I don't dive DIR because some guys in Florida or France do some MONSTER dives (although it is impressive). I dive DIR because it makes me more comfortable and have more fun in the water.... isn't that why we all dive anyway? To have more fun?

I've said before - and this is just my opinion - that I think DIR isn't dogma, but rather it's common sense... common sense that has been finely honed and tuned over decades by some of the best divers in the world.

If I were to study diving for years, I am convinced I would come up with something (equipment and communications and practices) that very closely resembles what we know as "DIR". But thankfully, I don't have to do all that hard work.... there's a group of people at GUE that have already done the hard work for me and are willing to teach me what they know.

I believe that successful people in life emulate other successful people, in whatever field they choose to pursue. I try to emulate the diving practices of a group of VERY successful divers, and I am grateful for the training that group of people has given me.

I would advise any diver to take the Fundamentals class. Go in with an open mind, and the promise to yourself that you will use what works for you and throw out what doesn't. I believe that people who go into the training with that attitude will come away from the course with dramatically improved diving skills that will forever change (for the better) the way you approach diving.

Give it a shot.

 

[Duncan Price]

cornfed once bubbled...


How do you figure depth for deco purposes in a sump? The link about Cueva Cheve mentioned that the sump was about 1400 meters down into the cave. Do you do something like adjusting tables for dives above sea level?

Cornfed

Exactly, the deepest cave dive in the world (Bushmansgat) starts from a water level 1550 m above sea level.

There's little point is comparing "records" between various sites, whether done open circuit, with or without scooters or solo/team. They are all achievements in their own right with their own logistics and challenges.

Duncan

 

[KentCe]

David Evans once bubbled...
I would advise any diver to take the Fundamentals class. Go in with an open mind, and the promise to yourself that you will use what works for you and throw out what doesn't. I believe that people who go into the training with that attitude will come away from the course with dramatically improved diving skills that will forever change (for the better) the way you approach diving.

Given this is a rebreather folder, I doubt they would permit a CCR in a DIR-F class (even if DivingInspirationRebreather). As been stated before, it would be great if there was a GUE Inspiration course (assuming it didn't start by digging our own 6' hole ).

 

[cornfed]

Duncan Price once bubbled...


Exactly, the deepest cave dive in the world (Bushmansgat) starts from a water level 1550 m above sea level.

Thanks

There's little point is comparing "records" between various sites, whether done open circuit, with or without scooters or solo/team. They are all achievements in their own right with their own logistics and challenges.

Duncan

Agreed. I'm just interested in the logistics required to pull these things off.

Cornfed

 

[David Evans]

KentCe once bubbled...


Given this is a rebreather folder, I doubt they would permit a CCR in a DIR-F class (even if DivingInspirationRebreather). As been stated before, it would be great if there was a GUE Inspiration course (assuming it didn't start by digging our own 6' hole ).

DIR or not, I gotta say the whole idea of an electronically controlled closed circuit rebreather is scary.

I'm a photographer - a pretty serious one. I LOVE the idea of diving without bubbles for the purposes of photography. I've never dived a breather before. But if what I read about the death rates among breathers (esp. Inspirations) vs. open circuit is accurate, then I will have to keep blowing bubbles for a while longer.

Uneducated about rebreathers,

-david

 

[KentCe]

David Evans once bubbled...
DIR or not, I gotta say the whole idea of an electronically controlled closed circuit rebreather is scary.

That was my initial view. But as I did more research on the topic I gained a better understanding (and respect) for CCR units.

The best comment I found that if an OC diver left their tank off, jumped in, sank to the bottom and died then it was "human" error. If a RB diver left their tank off and died, then it was the evil RB fault. I have read about numerous deaths on doubles, but it wasn't the fault of the hardware and people don't call wearing doubles as the death configuration.

So when you hear about a death on a RB, was it human fault (which happens all the time on OC) or hardware failure?

In the real world electronics are a good thing. An electronically controlled airbag is far better than anything mechanical. Of course this doesn't imply electronics always better and the source of rather long threads.

For me (rec diver), my OC limitation is NDL. A CCR provides a better mix than OC or SCR for various rec depths.