DIR with a Double Hose Reg

[Danny D]

What do you guys think of DIR with a Double Hose Reg?
Now the only problem that I can see is that your primary reg can not be the long hose. Then again if it is not a long hose would it still be Dir if all the other equipment was satisfying the requirments?
Double hose Regs are known for not being subseptible to dirt, mud , and silt debree effecting their mechanics. Having the bubbles behind you is a wonderful feeling and there is no jaw fatigue what so ever. It is still a compact setup with no loose hanging hoses. Spg at your right side clipped on, gauges on the wrists... I like the set-up. Im 21 , but have been diving for several years now with a couple hundred dives under my belt so im not a newbie. Everyone prob thinks that I would be crazy to dive an old double hose, but it worked for 25 years and the are solidly built. I think its the whole nastalgia thing behind diving with one that I like. Anyone else have any thoughts other then bashing me?

 

[Bob3]

It'd breathe awful funny with 7' hoses on the thing.
If you like your double hose, by all means use the critter.
I always opted for a double hose for ice diving, & added a bailout bottle of around 20 cu ft with a Cyklon for if/when the buddy's reg freezes up. For buddy breathing you pass off the bailout, as buddy breathing with a double hose needs to be a "practiced art" that few of your buddys may have.
For normal penetration dives you'd be better off going with a standard long hose configuration.
For ice diving, there still isn't a single hose that's as reliable as a good double hose reg.

 

[bwerb]

...it's really quite simple. The direct answer to your question would be no. You cannot be DIR with a double-hose regulator (on open circuit).

This is not to say that you can't have a whole bunch of other great "DIR" tweaks to your gear and technique and a great mindset etc., or even that you can't be a safe, happy, great diver.

But...DIR you will not be. One of the primary tenants of DIR is that you donate the regulator you are breathing. Since you cannot by design do this with a double-hose reg, by definition, you cannot be DIR (on open circuit). This is not something to get flamed about.

I'll compair it with a rough analogy..."I'd like to become a Christian, but I don't want to believe any of that Jesus stuff."
In other words...it's kinda the foundation of the system.

Just my thoughts.

 

[ew1usnr]

If you have an AquaMaster you can add an Apeks octopus on a 7-foot hose and an inflator to your hookah port. You can use a Dacor tank valve with an HP port and add a brass-cased pressure gauge. You can add a Halcyon wings BC as a final touch. Nitrox and a pony bottle may be required for dives deeper than 30-feet.

 

[JuPit]

But wait....there IS a way to dive a double hose reg in DIR style AND look cool......

Get a metal garbage can. Cut two holes for the hoses. Hide your double hose reg in the garbage can. Attach two Cylinders to the can, one on each side (Bigger=Cooler). Connect the reg via a stealth HP hose to the reg. Wear black. Go diving.
If someone asks, tell him condescendently thats you are test diving the new RB 80 Rebreather Prototype from Halcyon and the dump ratio is set to 1:1.


(Disclaimer: RB 80 is a very good rebreather/DIR folks are nice/you can dive DIR in a pink drysuit/)

...and of course the first divers in Wakulla ever didn´t have a single hose reg with 7 ft long hose ...

 

[Bob3]

The longest/deepest cave penetrations were done on rebreathers; obviously not complying to the rigid definition of the term.
If slapping a label on yourself is something you really need to do, try Hogarthian.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Doing it right with a double hose reg is different than the DIR concepts that have been built up recently.

First, you want the regulator low, between your shoulder blades, for optimum breathing. DIR doesn't like this, as they lake to reach their tank valve (because their single hose regs seem to like to die, or burst seams ; doubles don't do this much because they don't rely upon "O" rings much).

Second, you really don't want an extended hose wrapped around your neck with a double hose regulator system. You cannot easily "unwrap" the second stage and hand it to someone. Use a 36 inch hose, and use it like a normal octopus for your buddy.

Third, DIR is wrapped around the "wing" concept, and you would be better with a regular BC using a double hose regulator. Again, it's because the placement of the regulator is integral to its breathing characteristics. You want the regulator between you shoulder blades, and you want it to stay near you back, and not be lifted off by the "wing." This will mean the difference between 0 inches of water and about 3 inches of water resistence induced by the wing lifting the regulator off your back.

My advice; ignore the DIR stuff, and use the older, very proven techniques developed by US Navy Master Divers, the Cousteau team, US Divers Company, and a host of other expert divers over the last 50 years. Bill Barada put together a great chart for comparing the single hose verses the double hose regulators in his book, Let's Go Diving, published by U.S. Divers Company in 1962. Here's the chart, from page 29 of that publication (see attached jpg).

 

[ew1usnr]

John C. Ratliff once bubbled...
Third, DIR is wrapped around the "wing" concept, and you would be better with a regular BC using a double hose regulator. You want the regulator between you shoulder blades, and you want it to stay near you back, and not be lifted off by the "wing."

Forget the Halcyon wings. When John says a "regular BC", he may be referring to a horse collar (see attached photo). Another problem with the wings is that they would interfere with access to a J-valve pull rod, should you choose to use one. Many technical-type divers are opposed to the use of J-valves, however, and do not advocate their use. Note: The attached photo was taken in open water. Double hose regulators are not recommended for cave diving.

The best emergency procedure would be for you to keep your primary double hoses in your mouth and donate your Apeks octopus. You can put this on a long hose but should not coil it around your neck. You can have the octopus hose coiled and secured to the tank with an elastic loop. It can then be easily pulled from under the elastic if needed.

That's a nice chart, John. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Danny D]

I know how to dive DIR, and I was just proposing a topic for discussion. Itb is a fact that the basis of DIR is the Long hose and buddy sharing system. However, I think I might have found the loop hole...

If you can not dive DIR with a double hose reg then how is it possible to dive DIR with a rebreather since you can not donate your promary reg? That makes the two diving systems the same because the both use the two hose mouthpeice !!!!

What are some rebuttles?

 

[Lane Zimmer]

I'll take a stab at it, just for s***s and giggles.

The "rule" for donating the 7ft hose you are breathing has to change when using the rebreather. Lets take the RB 80 for example. Obviously, you can't donate the breathing loop. But, the rebreather just is a gas extension tool added to the "system". The unit is still, basically, a set of doubles with isolator manifold with full open circuit bailout for 2 divers. As far as an OOG situation, Diver A would switch the mp to OC and donate the long hose. It does require a lot of practice, but the breather divers are usually very experienced and damn good in the water. In the event of a breather failure, Diver A would switch to OC . If Diver B has a complete loss of gas, Diver A still has a hose to pass.

The OC diver and rebreather diver aren't the same in that the breather diver can ditch the breather and go to OC and still have a set of "doubles", with 7ft hose and backup. The OC diver would have to have an extra reg to do it right. But where would you put it on a set of doubles anyway?

Lets compare apples to apples...Double hose OC and double hose rebreather are not the same in function and procedure.

My 2 cents.