DIR vs Hogarthian

[MXGratefulDiver]

I would be much more inclined to typify is as a military approach than as a religious one.

It's not really that either, as many professions that rely on standardized procedures ... medical and aviation for example ... are not necessarily related to the military.

It's simply an attempt to codify practices and standardize expectations in an environment where it's difficult to talk about it in real time. Every part of the system has a purpose, and makes sense (unlike the military) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[elmer fudd]

It's not really that either, as many professions that rely on standardized procedures ... medical and aviation for example ... are not necessarily related to the military.

It's simply an attempt to codify practices and standardize expectations in an environment where it's difficult to talk about it in real time. Every part of the system has a purpose, and makes sense (unlike the military) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Originally, almost every aspect of military protocol made sense too. They just like to stick with things long after that's no longer the case.

 

[Doppler]

The OP may also be interested in yet another take on things

Hi, my name is Bill and I?m here to help? | Doppler's Tech Diving Blog

 

[eelnoraa]

deleted

 

[mdb]

The military protocol and procedures save lives and protect those in "waste management" and others who have never served in uniform.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Originally, almost every aspect of military protocol made sense too. They just like to stick with things long after that's no longer the case.

Precisely ... and that's an aspect of any organization. Things make sense until something changes that make them no longer make sense. And then the larger the organization, the more "inertial" ... and resistant to change ... they become.

GUE is a very small organization ... and UTD even smaller. I've seen many changes in both organizations in the years I've been aware of them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added June 20th, 2013 at 08:33 AM ----------

The military protocol and procedures save lives and protect those in "waste management" and others who have never served in uniform.

Many protocols and procedures outside of the military also save lives and protect those who are not part of the organization that makes them.

That's kind've the point of having them. But when they exist beyond the need ... due to changing conditions or circumstances ... then they no longer make sense ... and in some cases can then be counterproductive and make things less safe rather than more.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[chrpai]

The military protocol and procedures save lives and protect those in "waste management" and others who have never served in uniform.

I served and yet I find that line of thinking offensive. To me, to "serve" *IS* to "serve them". I take pride in that service to them without insulting them.

 

[James R]

Do not walk, run from that dive instructor.

There is a bad tendency in this industry to bad mouth anything that someone doesn't teach, sell, invent, dive....

I can't begin to tell you how many tech divers have had to sell all their gear and buy all over because they were sold "rec" gear that is unsuited for "tech" diving.

Buy once not twice.

I agree with most of this. Find an instructor that has experience in the kind of diving and gear config you want. There are many instructors out there, and even more diversity in the way they teach scuba.

With regards to how many tec divers have had to sell gear and buy different, well, when you become a tec diver (if you do), you will see that you will probably sell some stuff too. I would think it's extremely rare that someone walks in to a dive shop thinking something like "yep, im gonna be a tec diver someday...may as well get that BP/W and long hose reg right now!" The reality is that very few tec divers are around compared to recreational divers and very few dive shop employees are tec divers. They sell what they know, and shy away from what they don't know about.

 

[MKrauter]

I agree with most of this. Find an instructor that has experience in the kind of diving and gear config you want. There are many instructors out there, and even more diversity in the way they teach scuba.

With regards to how many tec divers have had to sell gear and buy different, well, when you become a tec diver (if you do), you will see that you will probably sell some stuff too. I would think it's extremely rare that someone walks in to a dive shop thinking something like "yep, im gonna be a tec diver someday...may as well get that BP/W and long hose reg right now!" The reality is that very few tec divers are around compared to recreational divers and very few dive shop employees are tec divers. They sell what they know, and shy away from what they don't know about.

My problem is finding an instructor who is grounded in Hogarthian or DIR theory in this area. I have asked around to some friends who dive about DIR or Hog. diving and the all look at me with a blank look on their faces. When asking my LDS and instructor they again dismissed it as Tech Diving or theories and practices that aren't needed in OW rec diving.

If anyone knows of any DIR/Hog. based instructors in SW Ontario (Windsor area) please please please let me know. The closest DIR-F course I could find is happening in Ottawa, an easy 11hr drive away...

Another concern that I have is, as I slowly configure my equipment into a Hogarthian setup (BP/W, Bungied Octo, Long Hose & Streamlining), I'm afraid that potential dive buddies will shy away from me seeing that the general consensus I hear around the shops and from my instructor is that anyone toting that kind of gear for rec diving is just "trying to flash tech gear to look good".

 

[mathauck0814]

My problem is finding an instructor who is grounded in Hogarthian or DIR theory in this area. I have asked around to some friends who dive about DIR or Hog. diving and the all look at me with a blank look on their faces. When asking my LDS and instructor they again dismissed it as Tech Diving or theories and practices that aren't needed in OW rec diving.

If anyone knows of any DIR/Hog. based instructors in SW Ontario (Windsor area) please please please let me know. The closest DIR-F course I could find is happening in Ottawa, an easy 11hr drive away...

Another concern that I have is, as I slowly configure my equipment into a Hogarthian setup (BP/W, Bungied Octo, Long Hose & Streamlining), I'm afraid that potential dive buddies will shy away from me seeing that the general consensus I hear around the shops and from my instructor is that anyone toting that kind of gear for rec diving is just "trying to flash tech gear to look good".

LDS are notorious for telling you that you don't need something solely on the grounds that they don't sell it. Doppler is near to Toronto, I believe... also consider traveling for training. I did my initial tech training in Key Largo and had a ball.