DIR vs Hogarthian

[danvolker]

It brings up the question whether one considers the concept of using a rig in it's most basic yet functional form Hogarthian or whether one considers only the BW/W with long and bungeed hoses as defined as Hogarthian. Destination vs process.

Pretty sure Main tried plenty of SM ideas out back in the early to mid 90's, as the WKPP did for specific applications --restrictions where it made sense. Sidemount is not really new.
Hogarthian SM is going to mean constantly changing your SM rig, with whatever new idea pops into your head

 

[DaleC]

I don't know about that but I do know if I applied Hogarthian principles to a rec OW rig I wouldn't have somethings a cave diver finds optimal. As I also solo dive it would be different again. It interests me as I am always tinkering, trying to find that perfect configuration myself. I think I would enjoy diving/talking with Bill.

 

[ams511]

Dir is to dive instruction as the Taliban is to religion.

Translation: Stroke = Infidel.

 

[danvolker]

Dir is to dive instruction as the Taliban is to religion.

Translation: Stroke = Infidel.

I am assuming this is supposed to be funny....ha..ha...
But I would say DIR is like a free encyclopedia of diving.....And before it, any knowledge you wanted you had to pay a dive store/instructor for....and you had no good way of knowing ahead of time, which store/instructor was really good--the real deal...and which were horribly bad.

DIR is a compendium of good diving ideas...and it is a holistic way to dive....but you can choose not to use the holistic diving system, and still benefit a great deal from the compendium of 30 years of good diving ideas in DIR.

 

[ams511]

I am assuming this is supposed to be funny....ha..ha...
But I would say DIR is like a free encyclopedia of diving.....And before it, any knowledge you wanted you had to pay a dive store/instructor for....and you had no good way of knowing ahead of time, which store/instructor was really good--the real deal...and which were horribly bad.

DIR is a compendium of good diving ideas...and it is a holistic way to dive....but you can choose not to use the holistic diving system, and still benefit a great deal from the compendium of 30 years of good diving ideas in DIR.

Yes it was meant as a joke. I have nothing against DIR divers or the GUE. However, I don't think the free encyclopedia of diving is an apt description. You still need to purchase the books unless you find a bootleg PDF file online. What I never understood is why JJ doesn't update the fundies book. Some of the info is dated and I believe is no longer in practice. For example using a non-balanced second stage as the backup regulator or the 3 C cell backup light.

 

[danvolker]

Yes it was meant as a joke. I have nothing against DIR divers or the GUE. However, I don't think the free encyclopedia of diving is an apt description. You still need to purchase the books unless you find a bootleg PDF file online. What I never understood is why JJ doesn't update the fundies book. Some of the info is dated and I believe is no longer in practice. For example using a non-balanced second stage as the backup regulator or the 3 C cell backup light.

We put out free info from 96 to 2003 constantly on Techdiver, cavers and rec.scuba....then there were the DIR videos....while the DIR I and DIR II were at a small fee, many people watched the video their friends had acquired....DIR 3 was free ...I think all three videos are now free on the Internet.

There are also some great DIR sites that have very extensive libraries of free DIR material.....examples:

• Frogkick.nl - De Online Gids voor DIR Duiken - Doing It Right Duiken
• Baker's Dozen 80/20

 

[DaleC]

Personally, I have found the DIR model to be an excellent example of how to approach diving, even though I do not embrace all aspects of the regime.

There are some good concepts: Break it down, look at the parts, understand how the parts interact, eliminate the extraneous, rely on skill more than equipment. Have fun but recognize the risk...

Because I solo dive and use vintage equipment and am a little too free spirited I can't go the way my DIR friends have gone; and because I exclusively OW dive, I draw different conclusions in some equipment analysis and put the emphasis on different principles: but I also own Dress for Success, The Fundamentals of Diving and have read both the Tech I and Cave I manuals (and I've watched those videos Dan co-stars in).

Knowledge permits reasoned choice. The more the better.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Dir is to dive instruction as the Taliban is to religion.

Translation: Stroke = Infidel.

... while I'm sure that's funny to somebody, it does nothing to answer the OP's question ... and in fact, is rather misinformative.

I'd be willing to bet you've read George Irvine's rather well-published article on what he defines as a "stroke" ... and while I detest the term, it clearly has a meaning that has more to do with attitude than whether or not someone is an adherent of the DIR style of diving.

WHAT IS A STROKE ?
by George Irvine

Very simply put, a "stroke" is somebody you don't want to dive with. It is somebody who will cause you problems, or not be any use to you if you have problems. Usually, this is a reflection of the attitude of a stroke, but that can be inherent in the personality of the individual, or others can teach it.

For instance, if somebody is taught that diving is an "every man for himself" sport, that you "can't help somebody deep," that "my gas is my gas," or "know when to leave your buddy," then that is somebody you do not want to be in the water with. Some people are natural strokes, but all too many are created. Unfortunately, people believe best what they hear first, and given the low-level food chain structure of dive instruction, most strokes are man-made, and are then hard to fix.

Obvious strokes are not so bad - you can see them and you know to avoid them. Frequently they will give it away with their choice of gear and gear configuration. If you see something that is a complete mess, makes no sense, is less than optimal, or is designed to accommodate some phobia while ignoring all else, you are dealing with a stroke. If the stroke is pontificating about how he can "handle" deep air diving, or obsessing about depth, or appears to be trying to compensate for internal fears, this is an obvious stroke and you merely avoid them.

The really insidious strokes are those who pretend to be squared away, but are in this game for all the wrong reasons. Usually they wish to prove something to themselves or others, or to overcome some internal fears. These tend to try to do things that they are not ready to do, and when something goes wrong, they flee for their lives.

Diving is not an intuitive thing. It is not a natural thing. Natural reactions of human beings on dry land do not work underwater. To be a good diver, you have to control your natural responses, and know that they can only hurt you, not help you. A stroke cannot do that. A stroke is driven by fear, ego, bull**** and self-concern.

I think it safe to say that this definition transcends any agency, and goes to the heart of what it means to choose your dive buddies wisely ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)