DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?

[MikeFerrara]

Yes, my top priorities when I rig up are whether I'm pretty and the drag that 30" of hose creates. If I can't feel it tugging on my mouth, I doubt I notice the difference in effort during finning...

If you like those big loops of hose I won't try to talk you out of em. However they're easy to get rid of if you ever want to.

You could also dive without it, as I did when I started & dove without a wetsuit(yep, just a BP, no wing). However, I like my Zeagle & my SP stab jacket. I don't grock your comment about holding a tank securely - mine sure as heck stays in the middle of my back - just where I put it on every dive.

Well it's a lot easier when you don't need a wet suit and a bunch of weight where you're negative at depth due to suit compression. Actually I think they still teach diving much as they did then. Divers tend to rest on the bottom when they're stop and you don't need a bc to do that. LOL.

I also clean my gear each day, so it is just as clean...

Of course I was talking about a different kind of clean as in neat vs sloppy. Again, if you prefer a sloppy configuration just about any dive shop can help you put one together. LOL

During lobster season or when spearfishing, the last thing I want on my wrist is something that will tangle in a line or bangs against the rocks as I put my hand in a hole. Again, I'll worry about the drag when I need every last ounce of strength to drag my behind up the ladder onto the boat...

Mine always seem to stay where I clip them. Must just be me...

It might be just you at that because I see hundreds of students and even instructors every summer with everything dangling. Oh, check out the great pictures in any of the magazines too. As often as not you'll see everything dangle. Monkey see, monkey do.

So are you saying that DIR may have situational applicability? Careful Mike, you're almost agreeing with me again...

No, only that some invironments are more forgiving of poor technique than others.

Do they need an advantage? Is it really an advantage, or is it a preference?

No they don't need it. In fact they don't need to dive.

More in terms of training and skill development. Plus, until GUE is as popular as PADI, try renting BP/W and a long hose w/bungeed 2nd. You may haul your gear everywhere you go, but there are many who don't...

Good point. I don't rent gear though. I don't even provide equipment for students any more. They need to supply their own equipment for classes just because it's hard for a new diver to perform well in unfamiliar equipment.

But...all a traveling diver needs to do in order to have a bungeed 2nd when renting is to carry a $0.5 piece of bungee. Use the longer hose for the primary and hang the other around your neck. The lengths aren't perfect but it'll work.

As for the plate and harness? I just don't see many people that ever want to dive a bc again after using it so they'll probably want to throw one in the bottom of their bag.

In addition, it doesn't have anything to do with the popularity of GUE. I'm not affiliated with GUE in any way nor have I ever taken a class from them. You don't need GUE to clean up your gear and technique.

Aside from your point about reaching in holes I haven't yet heard an arguement for the advantages of a typical configuration. The common arguement seems to be that a recreational diver can get away with it rather than an arguement for it's advantage. Or...because that's what is available for rent. You do it because others do not because it works better? Wow

Try both and stick with what you like. That's what I did.

 

[gj62]

If you like those big loops of hose I won't try to talk you out of em. However they're easy to get rid of if you ever want to.

It's not about like or dislike - I don't even know they are there...

Of course I was talking about a different kind of clean as in neat vs sloppy. Again, if you prefer a sloppy configuration just about any dive shop can help you put one together.

Neat vs sloppy. Too funny. You really care how you look? More form over function? You can have that as your reason, I guess...

It might be just you at that because I see hundreds of students and even instructors every summer with everything dangling. Oh, check out the great pictures in any of the magazines too. As often as not you'll see everything dangle. Monkey see, monkey do.

I clip my 2nd & guages for convenience. If the divers aren't 1' from the reef, do you really care if the guage is trailing? Why do you care? I agree that you must exercise caution to not drag your guage through anything, but if someone accomplishes that, let their guages be where they want...

No, only that some invironments are more forgiving of poor technique than others.

It's not poor technique - it simply isn't the technique you prefer, or that may work in certain environments (that's exactly what is meant by situational applicability).

Good point. I don't rent gear though. I don't even provide equipment for students any more. They need to supply their own equipment for classes just because it's hard for a new diver to perform well in unfamiliar equipment.

True, but in most rec environments, you can perform mediocre and do just fine...

But...all a traveling diver needs to do in order to have a bungeed 2nd when renting is to carry a $0.5 piece of bungee. Use the longer hose for the primary and hang the other around your neck. The lengths aren't perfect but it'll work.

Not nearly as well - for me it is damn uncomfortable having the 2nd on a bungee. Tried it, didn't like it, switched back. Same with the long primary. I don't tell others not to do it though, to each his own.

As for the plate and harness? I just don't see many people that ever want to dive a bc again after using it so they'll probably want to throw one in the bottom of their bag.

Did BP/W when I was in CA and used a drysuit. Now, I like my back-inflate Zeagle Escape as most of my diving these days is tropical, but my common buddy prefers his SP Stab. So, chalk another one up preferences...

In addition, it doesn't have anything to do with the popularity of GUE. I'm not affiliated with GUE in any way nor have I ever taken a class from them. You don't need GUE to clean up your gear and technique.

My point was that until GUI/DIR become much more popular, you won't find many shops renting that style of rig...

Aside from your point about reaching in holes I haven't yet heard an arguement for the advantages of a typical configuration.

Isn't one enough?

The common arguement seems to be that a recreational diver can get away with it rather than an arguement for it's advantage. Or...because that's what is available for rent. You do it because others do not because it works better? Wow

If it works, why do you care? It may be disadvantageous to you, but that's your opinion.

BTW - I never said anyone should do anything simply because others do it (but that is close to what DIR says - dive identically and reduce risk on a 60' reef dive, blah, blah, blah)

Try both and stick with what you like. That's what I did.

Yep. Me too!

 

[jonnythan]

Come on guys - especially Mike, you know better. DIR isn't about the gear config, don't focus on that.

 

[gj62]

Come on guys - especially Mike, you know better. DIR isn't about the gear config, don't focus on that.

Yep, so do I - sorry for the minor hijacking, espcially since the thread isn't even about what DIR is at all... :11:

 

[MikeFerrara]

Come on guys - especially Mike, you know better. DIR isn't about the gear config, don't focus on that.

I'm just responding to comments. If you look through my posts I refered to lots more than equipment.

GJ62,

The reason for a neat streamline configuration has nothing to do with looks.

Later

 

[MikeFerrara]

It's not about like or dislike - I don't even know they are there...

You do now cuz I just told ya.

Neat vs sloppy. Too funny. You really care how you look? More form over function? You can have that as your reason, I guess...

It's not looks. It's too funny that you'd think it was. It's about function.

I clip my 2nd & guages for convenience. If the divers aren't 1' from the reef, do you really care if the guage is trailing? Why do you care? I agree that you must exercise caution to not drag your guage through anything, but if someone accomplishes that, let their guages be where they want...

People certainly do. By all means let em dangle if you like it that way. LOL

It's not poor technique - it simply isn't the technique you prefer, or that may work in certain environments (that's exactly what is meant by situational applicability).

It is about good vs poor technique. Your whole arguement seems to be that since there are environments where you can survive having poor technique that it's ok. Well, ok.

True, but in most rec environments, you can perform mediocre and do just fine...

More arguements for mediocrity. Can't argue with you. If that's your goal, ok.

Not nearly as well - for me it is damn uncomfortable having the 2nd on a bungee. Tried it, didn't like it, switched back. Same with the long primary. I don't tell others not to do it though, to each his own.

Did BP/W when I was in CA and used a drysuit. Now, I like my back-inflate Zeagle Escape as most of my diving these days is tropical, but my common buddy prefers his SP Stab. So, chalk another one up preferences...

Sure, use what you prefer. I've dived an Escape and I thought it sucked. But as you pointed out in the tropics you don't need much of a bc.

My point was that until GUI/DIR become much more popular, you won't find many shops renting that style of rig...

Shops will rent what divers want to use. Speaking for myself, I don't use what's available in some shops rental pool to decide what equipment I'm going to dive in. Seems like putting the cart before the horse.

Isn't one enough? If it works, why do you care? It may be disadvantageous to you, but that's your opinion.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that I care. I don't, at least not about what you do. I do get concerned about newer divers and what they're exposed to or more correctly what they're not exposed to.

I mean threads like this consist of divers like yourself argueing in favor of mediocrity. Sounds defensive to me.

BTW - I never said anyone should do anything simply because others do it (but that is close to what DIR says - dive identically and reduce risk on a 60' reef dive, blah, blah, blah)

Yep. Me too!

This is maybe the main issue isn't it.

I think we need c-cards that spefy 60 ft reef dives only and then on the condition that there's a pro there to keep the group together and watch their gas for em. LOL

 

[gj62]

...too long to waste space reposting...

Mediocrity isn't a goal, it is simply a point in diving (or in any pursuit). A Hogarth rig no more indicates excellence than a traditional rig indicates mediocrity.

You can piss and moan all you want that your way is better. Well, if it is *in your mind*, you're welcome to it. Since only a very small minority of the diving public have adopted it - even among those that have even heard of it - someday you'll realize that your vociferous arguments (and those of like opinion) aren't swaying anyone, because the existing rigs & skill levels really do work just fine.

Hey, if someone wants to pursue that extra 10% with 90% of their effort, I'll send 'em your way.

Personally, I find that it does not add appreciably to my safety or enjoyment in the types of diving I do. I've given my reasons, you haven't mounted a credible arguement in most specifics other than to comment on the very small amount drag a hose would produce and similar nits - everything else is your opinion, not factual counterpoint.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Mediocrity isn't a goal, it is simply a point in diving (or in any pursuit). A Hogarth rig no more indicates excellence than a traditional rig indicates mediocrity.

You can piss and moan all you want that your way is better. Well, if it is *in your mind*, you're welcome to it. Since only a very small minority of the diving public have adopted it - even among those that have even heard of it - someday you'll realize that your vociferous arguments (and those of like opinion) aren't swaying anyone, because the existing rigs & skill levels really do work just fine.

Hey, if someone wants to pursue that extra 10% with 90% of their effort, I'll send 'em your way.

Personally, I find that it does not add appreciably to my safety or enjoyment in the types of diving I do. I've given my reasons, you haven't mounted a credible arguement in most specifics other than to comment on the very small amount drag a hose would produce and similar nits - everything else is your opinion, not factual counterpoint.

Som,etimes, when I answer an burglary alarm at 2am, I just open the door and walk in. Look around, everything is fine. That time, mediocrity prevailed. But, when the day comes when the **** hits the fan, I want to be on my best game. I want to utilise the most safe, beneficial, tactical skills I have at hand to keep me alive. Sure, many divers can go below the surface, breath air from a compressed air cylinder, and surface. The differnece is when they need the skills to overcome a real problem, they have zero in their tool chest to do so. To promote having zero is just as bad as attaining it.

 

[Cave Diver]

More arguements for mediocrity. Can't argue with you. If that's your goal, ok.

The problem with setting a goal for mediocrity is that few fail to achieve it...

What's that old saying? "Aim for the moon, because at least if you miss you'll still end up among the stars."

 

[MikeFerrara]

Som,etimes, when I answer an burglary alarm at 2am, I just open the door and walk in. Look around, everything is fine. That time, mediocrity prevailed. But, when the day comes when the **** hits the fan, I want to be on my best game. I want to utilise the most safe, beneficial, tactical skills I have at hand to keep me alive. Sure, many divers can go below the surface, breath air from a compressed air cylinder, and surface. The differnece is when they need the skills to overcome a real problem, they have zero in their tool chest to do so. To promote having zero is just as bad as attaining it.

Yes.

Mediocrity isn't a goal, it is simply a point in diving (or in any pursuit). A Hogarth rig no more indicates excellence than a traditional rig indicates mediocrity.

It's not just the equipment.

You can piss and moan all you want that your way is better. Well, if it is *in your mind*, you're welcome to it. Since only a very small minority of the diving public have adopted it - even among those that have even heard of it - someday you'll realize that your vociferous arguments (and those of like opinion) aren't swaying anyone, because the existing rigs & skill levels really do work just fine.

No. What sways people is when they see it in the water.

Hey, if someone wants to pursue that extra 10% with 90% of their effort, I'll send 'em your way.

It really doesn't require that much effort and it's much more than a small return as you suggest.

Personally, I find that it does not add appreciably to my safety or enjoyment in the types of diving I do. I've given my reasons, you haven't mounted a credible arguement in most specifics other than to comment on the very small amount drag a hose would produce and similar nits - everything else is your opinion, not factual counterpoint.

What is it that doesn't add to your diving safety or enjoyment?