DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?

[diverberr]

roakey once bubbled...

Another stunning display that you have to be truely ignorant of DIR in order to bash it.

I'm not bashing DIR. I'm just saying there are other (valid) ways to do things. Gaining experience and forming your own opinion, as well as setting up your kit in a way that's comfortable for you, is another way of doing things. As opposed to being told "the only right way of doing things", and taking it as gospel just because your instructor said so.
Those of us with tech experience can't afford to stagnate. For our sport to move forward, we have to move forward and continue to evolve.
If anything, DIR divers are bashing the rest of us. Just because we don't all dive the "right" (DIR) way, doesn't mean we're not safe divers. If anything, we're more flexible when dealing with an emergency underwater, because of our differences.

 

[roakey]

diverberr once blathered...
If anything, DIR divers are bashing the rest of us.

Haven't been around long, have you? Oh, three posts. Another new comer who thinks that what he's saying is original. You're wrong, it's the antis who do the vast majority of the bashing because they don't know JS about the system. Grab a backplate and a long hose and get on just about ANY dive boat and tell me who does the bashing.

diverberr once blathered...
If anything, we're more flexible when dealing with an emergency underwater, because of our differences.

I see you've never heard of Hick's law. Because if you had, you would have never made such a ridiculous statement.

Take some time to understand the system and come back when you do.

Roak

Ps. Besides, the comment was aimed at MASS-Diver

 

[AquaTec]

diverberr once bubbled...

roakey once bubbled...

Another stunning display that you have to be truely ignorant of DIR in order to bash it.

I'm not bashing DIR. I'm just saying there are other (valid) ways to do things. Gaining experience and forming your own opinion, as well as setting up your kit in a way that's comfortable for you, is another way of doing things. As opposed to being told "the only right way of doing things", and taking it as gospel just because your instructor said so.
Those of us with tech experience can't afford to stagnate. For our sport to move forward, we have to move forward and continue to evolve.
If anything, DIR divers are bashing the rest of us. Just because we don't all dive the "right" (DIR) way, doesn't mean we're not safe divers. If anything, we're more flexible when dealing with an emergency underwater, because of our differences.

I also see you have been here for only three posts. I think the national average for non DIR divers is about 10 posts, then you reilize that anytime you try todiscuss anything that is not under the DIR heading, yu spend most of your time defending thins like the fact that you have only three posts. the small exception to this is non DIR divers who just like to debate for pure intertainment value. like myself.

not only do DIR divers not evolve but they try as hard as they can to stop others from evolving by creating worthless slams about issues that are off the original topic, and personal in their attack.

this then keeps the number of non DIR divers on this baord to a minimum and they can continue to influence the new diver without any other interuptions that are based on new technologies or plain lodgic

 

[King Kong Matt]

AquaTec once bubbled...

not only do DIR divers not evolve but they try as hard as they can to stop others from evolving by creating worthless slams about issues that are off the original topic, and personal in their attack.

this then keeps the number of non DIR divers on this baord to a minimum and they can continue to influence the new diver without any other interuptions that are based on new technologies or plain lodgic

I know that we (I am not DIR) have our disagreements with the other side, but your description seems to be a bit unfair.

Maybe its my personal experience on this board, but I find that most people, whether they are DIR or not, treat you the way they tream them - ask an intelligent question with no hidden agenda or personal attacks, and you're likely to get a thoughtful answer. Go in with guns a blazin'...well, you might get a little scratched.

To suggest that DIR divers on this board are just using personal attacks to make sure that every new diver converts to DIR...that, in my experience, just isn't an accurate characterization of the DIR divers I know on this board.

Again...my personal experience...

 

[AquaTec]

I better clarify

divers on this board who are doing advanced level diving and have devolped systems that work well for them. but may not be DIR. have a difficult time discussing their way of diving without being attacked generaly in a personal way by several [not all] DIR divers who feel that if you don't dive DIR it is just a matter of time before you die.

This usualy turns the conversation away from its original entent and becomes a name calling thread. way off track.

you will probably find very few advanced level non DIR divers on this board with less than 300 posts. that is because they left, or if their still here the must love the debate.

yet very few discutions about advanced level diving can be had on this board unless it falls under the good graces of the DIR folks.

as a Final note i will show my ignorance to DIR.
My understanding is that DIR is a system and a Philosophy. and GUE is the Training agency teaching it. they have adopted the Holgartian gear configuration.

I don't see a lot wrong with most of the DIR system or most of its Philosophies. I think it is acualy the training agency that is to blame for the "my way or die" attitude of some [most] of its divers, and that "any other way is totaly wrong".

If you are not sure of what I mean just start at the start of this thread and read every post, and see where it goes. then tell me I am wrong

 

[King Kong Matt]

AquaTec once bubbled...
you will probably find very few advanced level non DIR divers on this board with less than 300 posts. that is because they left, or if their still here the must love the debate.

I assume you mean more than 300 posts based on your conclusion that "those who stay like the debate".

To be perfectly honest, I agree with a large portion of what you have said. I do, however, tend to disagree with the notion that DIR divers represent an overwhelming majority of divers on the board, capable of controlling how new divers progress in their hobby, or how advanced non-DIR divers are treated in threads.

The numbers just don't bear it out...

At the time of this writing, there were approx. 6,826 registered members of ScubaBoard. If you watch the average load, you'd probably agree that the average number of active users ranges somewhere between 120-150 during the day.

Who are the real DIR divers (not an invitation to mention names)? Discounting all the zealots that own a boatload of Halcyon gear and know everything that JJ has ever read or said but have never taken DIRF, how many active, vocal members are we left with? If you can name more than half-a-dozen, than I will be impressed...even assuming you could name 15-20 experienced DIR divers that have been through the GUE curriculum and have done the classwork, you'd still be talking about a small fraction of the users on this board.

The bottom line...the true DIR divers (again, in my opinion) are a healthy source of information on this board and are always good for a spirited, but informative debate. The rest...ignore them.

As for the notion that experienced, non-DIR divers leave the boards...I sincerely hope you're wrong. I look at your profile and your experience and can't help but think of what a loss it would be to our little community here if someone like you left because of some JJ sycophant with an internet connection and 10 dives under his belt started typing whatever came to mind...

I hope you agree.

 

[AquaTec]

Very reasonably put. some of my views on your statements below

King Kong Matt once bubbled...

I assume you mean more than 300 posts based on your conclusion that "those who stay like the debate".
no there are very few with less than 300 because they allready left, the ones with more than 300 have stuck around because they like the debate


To be perfectly honest, I agree with a large portion of what you have said. I do, however, tend to disagree with the notion that DIR divers represent an overwhelming majority of divers on the board, capable of controlling how new divers progress in their hobby, or how advanced non-DIR divers are treated in threads.
[/I] I may not have said it very well, I will try again. say for example under the thread technical discutions, if you bring up a subject that is not condoned by the DIR crowd [whom ever they may be] then that discution will generalt turn into name calling retirrick instead of an intelegent conversation umongst those who are doing that type of diving. this drive away those who consider themselves constantly learning new styles of diving [for lack of initials as cool as DIR]. I did not mnean to say that DIR divers on this board where out to get rid of the rest so that they could conform the masses. that was not my entention. it just appears that people with advanced theories tend to get driven away for example Bruce Weinkle was here for about 5 posts and has never come back. or the Gary Gentile thread which could have had productive discution about his theories, [mind you the heading was a set up GG vs DIR[/I]

The numbers just don't bear it out...

At the time of this writing, there were approx. 6,826 registered members of ScubaBoard. If you watch the average load, you'd probably agree that the average number of active users ranges somewhere between 120-150 during the day.
[/I]this is based on me not explaining what I ment very well, see above[/I]

Who are the real DIR divers (not an invitation to mention names)? Discounting all the zealots that own a boatload of Halcyon gear and know everything that JJ has ever read or said but have never taken DIRF, how many active, vocal members are we left with? If you can name more than half-a-dozen, than I will be impressed...even assuming you could name 15-20 experienced DIR divers that have been through the GUE curriculum and have done the classwork, you'd still be talking about a small fraction of the users on this board.

The bottom line...the true DIR divers (again, in my opinion) are a healthy source of information on this board and are always good for a spirited, but informative debate. The rest...ignore them.
I couldn't have said this better myself. I try to weed them out, but only if you kow them can you determine the true source. this is why i am a beleiver in posting your qualifications.

as a matter of fact i would rather see someones qualifications posted under their nmame instead of their birthdate, then we would easiely be ably to consider the source of the information

As for the notion that experienced, non-DIR divers leave the boards...I sincerely hope you're wrong. I look at your profile and your experience and can't help but think of what a loss it would be to our little community here if someone like you left because of some JJ sycophant with an internet connection and 10 dives under his belt started typing whatever came to mind...

I hope you agree.

Thanks for the complement...but sometimes i am guilty of typing what ever comes to mind...not always being productive......I have learned to take this board as purely entertainment.....say when i am done checking out the singles board...or the porn sites

 

[AquaTec]

sorry about the formating or lack of.. i was trying to format it so that my conversation and yours would be seperate. either bold or italisized but i cant get that to work out

 

[WreckWriter]

who follow DIR principles but are NOT GUE trained. Where do we fit into this argument? Not all of the tech instuctors who teach DIR principles are GUE.

Tom

 

[King Kong Matt]

WreckWriter once bubbled...
...who follow DIR principles but are NOT GUE trained. Where do we fit into this argument? Not all of the tech instuctors who teach DIR principles are GUE.

Tom, I was just thinking it would be helpful if you popped you head in here. You have raised something that I wanted to bring up in my previous post.

Let's get back to the original idea here...Gentile. I do not know him personally, and here is where WreckWriter can shed some insight, but I have to believe that Gentile's rig is not that dissimilar to a lot of DIR rigs. BP/Wings...necklaced secondary with long hose primary. Again, I do not know, but I am willing to bet a shiny new penny that I'm right.

Which is precisely my point...I like the flexibility of a community in which there are open-minded DIR divers and open-minded non-DIR divers. I feel that, without the rhetoric, I can make an informed decision about the best rig for the kind of diving that I am doing...if it happens to be that my choice is 100% DIR but I am not formally associated or trained by GUI, it's still an informed choice.

Just my thoughts.