WELL SAID!
Dive often, but dive safe.
John
DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?
- Thread starter scuba11b
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
WELL SAID!
Dive often, but dive safe.
John
Originally posted by sheck33
Dear wreckwriter, that using a 100 lb bungeed wing is going to kill you is hard to prove. A lot of people have problems with SOME 'DIR' divers telling other divers they are going to die unless they use THEIR DIR style setup. I do NOT agree with that attitude either. As i said in an earlier post, a lot of very experienced divers have done some amazing stuff and continue to do so using a non-DIR setup.
Smoking however does not fall in that category, unless one is retarded nobody disputes the fact that smoking is stupid, it poisons your body, screws up your respiratory system and makes the smoker a liability to their divebuddy. There are no buts or if's there. Call me a smoke nazi if you will, actually i like that term
They have very good reasons for wanting their students to be non-smokers and i cant imagine that you'd disagree with those reasons. I told my GF that my dives with her will be limited because of her smoking, sorry my safety is more important than anyone's nicotine addiction:boom:
but i'll put you at ease, it will be a while before my instructor course :tease:
Just jerking your chain Sheck! obviously you are right about smoking, even smokers know it's stupid. I did think it was an interesting comment you made about kicking students out of class though.
As for the attitudes of DIR folks, I know a lot, some very highly placed within the organization, some just wannabes. The ones with the really rabid attitudes are generally the wannabes. Those who really been down the block usually put the info out there and leave it up to the listener whether or not to use it.
Tom
Spectre
Contributor
I still don't see why being a non-smoker is listed as a course requirement. And what is the definition of a non-smoker? Never smoked? Not smoked for a year/month/week/day/hour?
I wonder about that myself Jeff. Maybe they leave the exact definition unspecified on purpose....
Tom
trheeltek
Registered
Exactly! The top guys I've met, GUE or not, all just put it out there and let you decide. One of the reasons DIR gets such a bad name is that the rabid newbies feel licensed to tell highly accomplished divers that they're doing it wrong. Hmm, wonder why people get polarized about DIR.
I also believe that part of the problem is, paradoxically DIR is a great system. People new to tech diving tend to fanatically embrace the entire system, because most of it is so much better than what they were taught. What they may not realize is, GUE didn't invent it - most of the skills and rigging are exactly the same as current cave training (trim, kicks, hogarthian rigging). So they see the beauty of that part, which was worked out by many cave divers long before DIR came about, and they accept the rest of it without question. DIR is not radically different from everything else, they just train you very well.
My best advice is to get as many different sources of information as you can, and make the decision that's right for you. For instance, if you haven't tried deep air, take the TDI Adv. Nitrox/Deco class (150') with an instructor you trust, then make a decision. You won't die, you might have fun, and maybe it will help you make an informed decision.
diverberr
Contributor
The way I've always seen it, and the way I was trained, is to evolve your own equipment configuration. What works for you isn't always what works for another diver. DIR definitely has it's merits, and parts of my configuration are Hogarthian and DIR. But by trying to standardize equipment for all tech divers, you're only going to create problems.
As tech divers, we're all traineed to be self-sufficient. That doesn't mean we always dive alone, or that we'd refuse the offer of help in an emergency. It does however, mean that my gear setup doesn't have to be exactly like yours for me to be able to help you, or vice-versa.
My gear configuration has evolved over the past 8 or so years that I've been involved in tech diving. I've taken parts of many different diver's configurations, as well as innovations of my own, and incorporated them into a gear package that works for me. What works, works.
But I'm not going to try to ram my configuration down your throat. Just because it's right for me, doesn't mean it's right for everyone. And there lies the inherent flaw in the DIR system:
Not all divers are alike, therefore not all divers equipment setups should be alike. If you wish to dive DIR, great if that's what works for you. But if it's not right for you, don't feel like you can't setup your gear differently.
Tech diving has reached the point it has, and tech gear has evolved as it has, by divers trying new things, and configuring their gear to meet different requirements. Your rig should always be evolving. When we decide that this or that is the absolute best and can't be improved upon, our sport will stagnate, instead of moving forward.
I've nothing against DIR or it's practitioners, I just choose to do it my way. So please, DIR fanatics, don't try to force your views down my throat, and I'll stop writing these long-winded tirades.
Thanks for letting me put in my 2 cents worth.
As tech divers, we're all traineed to be self-sufficient. That doesn't mean we always dive alone, or that we'd refuse the offer of help in an emergency. It does however, mean that my gear setup doesn't have to be exactly like yours for me to be able to help you, or vice-versa.
My gear configuration has evolved over the past 8 or so years that I've been involved in tech diving. I've taken parts of many different diver's configurations, as well as innovations of my own, and incorporated them into a gear package that works for me. What works, works.
But I'm not going to try to ram my configuration down your throat. Just because it's right for me, doesn't mean it's right for everyone. And there lies the inherent flaw in the DIR system:
Not all divers are alike, therefore not all divers equipment setups should be alike. If you wish to dive DIR, great if that's what works for you. But if it's not right for you, don't feel like you can't setup your gear differently.
Tech diving has reached the point it has, and tech gear has evolved as it has, by divers trying new things, and configuring their gear to meet different requirements. Your rig should always be evolving. When we decide that this or that is the absolute best and can't be improved upon, our sport will stagnate, instead of moving forward.
I've nothing against DIR or it's practitioners, I just choose to do it my way. So please, DIR fanatics, don't try to force your views down my throat, and I'll stop writing these long-winded tirades.
Thanks for letting me put in my 2 cents worth.
MASS-Diver
Contributor
Wow, I could'n even read all the pages on the thread because I was shocked that people would bash Gary Gentile so openly. Although I've never met him, I've read all or most of his books. I think it's really unfair for people to critize people for how they dove in the 70s and 80s (deep air), if it wasn't for these people pusing the limits no one would be diving with mix today. It's a fact.
BTW, Gentile was bent a few times and had a number of close calls over his career, I think he survived because he's one tough individual (consider his war record).
Anyone here think they have done more for wreck diving then him?
His expedition to dive the Lusitania and his fight to open the Monitor for non-Navy divers are famous and signifcant evnts in
dive history.
Maybe some DIR divers don't like him because he dove wrecks not caves. But, their 'God' died while diving mix, so maybe Gentile should be cut some slack. Sometimes the truth hurts.
BTW, Gentile was bent a few times and had a number of close calls over his career, I think he survived because he's one tough individual (consider his war record).
Anyone here think they have done more for wreck diving then him?
His expedition to dive the Lusitania and his fight to open the Monitor for non-Navy divers are famous and signifcant evnts in
dive history.
Maybe some DIR divers don't like him because he dove wrecks not caves. But, their 'God' died while diving mix, so maybe Gentile should be cut some slack. Sometimes the truth hurts.
sheck33
Contributor
What 'god' might that be
And being a DIR 'freak' i think Gentile is a remarkable diver!!
WOW. this thread is exactly what i would expect here.
It all boils down to DIR vs the rest of the world.
Those that are DIR/GUE beleiving that there is no way but theirs. against the rest of us who are open minded to new ideas and ways of doing things.
I wonder sometimes, whith all the changes that have taken place in tech diving over the last 10 years, what will the next ten years offer.
well GI will still be doing it the ONLY way and so will all his followers. and the rest of us will be on closed circuit reabreathers with heads up displays etc. doing dives to 500 feet as if it where 300 today.
I was just with Tom on a 525 foot dive on a megladon rebreather in the Caymans. He is doing it -- at the very tip of the spear, along with many others like Gary Gentile, Kevin Gurr, John Bennet and so many others the list being so long [not to mention those who have passed on]. they are discovering new methods of diving pushing todays limits so that others may follow safely.
I saw someone here say that those who are the wanabes are doing all the talking while those doing the diving could care less what us on a board thinks. I beleive that is true. My grandfather used to say "those who speak the loudest, generaly know the least, the quiet one is usualy listening, learning, and extracting that one important thing. seek him out and learn from him."
some people like LOST yooper seem to have an axe to grind because people dive on air, thats ok but its funny that his axe grinds with every single agency except GUE, be carefull in shunning something blanketdly as you may miss something that is important. hince the reason i still listen to all the DIR stuff that is said here.
I have not read Gary's book yet, I look forward to it, I first learned the tech diving stuff from his 1st book [and others, like Sheck's] and they where cutting edge of diving WHEN they were written prior to all these agencies "standardizing" it all
I still read all I can and try to extract what is usefull on the diving I do.
don't knock agencies, or people for what they did then, or what they are doing now that you don't agree with. try pointing out the stuff that someone has done that has changed the way you dive, this we can learn from.
to answer the original question; read the book, extract from it what makes since to you at your level of experience and training and then aplie it carefully to your style of diving, then keep reading. however the most important thing is to allways concider the source of your information. I would say that Gary Gentile is one of your best sources, however not the only source. you are doing the right thing by getting an oppinion of what people think about this guy. it is up to you to make your own descition. and make sure you do the same with the people on this board as well before you go off and take everything they say as gospil
It all boils down to DIR vs the rest of the world.
Those that are DIR/GUE beleiving that there is no way but theirs. against the rest of us who are open minded to new ideas and ways of doing things.
I wonder sometimes, whith all the changes that have taken place in tech diving over the last 10 years, what will the next ten years offer.
well GI will still be doing it the ONLY way and so will all his followers. and the rest of us will be on closed circuit reabreathers with heads up displays etc. doing dives to 500 feet as if it where 300 today.
I was just with Tom on a 525 foot dive on a megladon rebreather in the Caymans. He is doing it -- at the very tip of the spear, along with many others like Gary Gentile, Kevin Gurr, John Bennet and so many others the list being so long [not to mention those who have passed on]. they are discovering new methods of diving pushing todays limits so that others may follow safely.
I saw someone here say that those who are the wanabes are doing all the talking while those doing the diving could care less what us on a board thinks. I beleive that is true. My grandfather used to say "those who speak the loudest, generaly know the least, the quiet one is usualy listening, learning, and extracting that one important thing. seek him out and learn from him."
some people like LOST yooper seem to have an axe to grind because people dive on air, thats ok but its funny that his axe grinds with every single agency except GUE, be carefull in shunning something blanketdly as you may miss something that is important. hince the reason i still listen to all the DIR stuff that is said here.
I have not read Gary's book yet, I look forward to it, I first learned the tech diving stuff from his 1st book [and others, like Sheck's] and they where cutting edge of diving WHEN they were written prior to all these agencies "standardizing" it all
I still read all I can and try to extract what is usefull on the diving I do.
don't knock agencies, or people for what they did then, or what they are doing now that you don't agree with. try pointing out the stuff that someone has done that has changed the way you dive, this we can learn from.
to answer the original question; read the book, extract from it what makes since to you at your level of experience and training and then aplie it carefully to your style of diving, then keep reading. however the most important thing is to allways concider the source of your information. I would say that Gary Gentile is one of your best sources, however not the only source. you are doing the right thing by getting an oppinion of what people think about this guy. it is up to you to make your own descition. and make sure you do the same with the people on this board as well before you go off and take everything they say as gospil
Another stunning display that you have to be truely ignorant of DIR in order to bash it.
Usually the anti-DIR folks are a bit more veiled in making false claims about DIR, glad you're willing to be completely blantant about showing what you don't know. It's refreshing.
Roak
Similar threads
