DIR gear without DIR training?

[micknewton]

Okay, so my wife and I recently passed our PADI OW course, which means that we have a learner’s permit (and probably know just enough to be good ‘n dangerous). I doubt that either of us will ever be anything more than occasional (vacation) divers, and, as far as I’m concerned, there’s nothing wrong with that. I just want to dive in warm, interesting places, see cool stuff, and have fun. I’ll just have to try to be satisfied with only 1 or 2 dive trips per year. We’ve already bought good wetsuits, fins, and masks, and now I want to buy good BCs and regulators too. I’m very interested in the DIR gear configuration. I think the long primary hose and necklaced backup is a good idea, and I think that I would like a BP/W rig too. Eventually, I would like us to both take an approved DIR-F course and become more proficient, safer divers. In the meantime, however, is there any reason why I shouldn’t make our first scuba rigs DIR compatible? For instance, if I buy Halcyon Eclipse BCs and regulators with DIR style hoses, will we run into any major problems using them? Is using a DIR rig all that different from using a “normal” scuba rig? Would using a DIR rig without ‘proper’ training be a dangerous and/or stupid thing to do? Will we sink to the bottom, never to be seen again? Should we just stick with normal jacket style or back-inflate BCs and short hoses?

Things I’ve noticed:

1. Not all BP/Ws are DIR compatible. For instance, Dive Rite BCs have quick-releases.

2. Halcyon (and possibly others) doesn’t authorize their gear to be sold through web sites or mail order places (although I’ve found some web sites that do sell Halcyon BCs.)

3. There’s no LDS nearby that carries Halcyon, or any other DIR gear that I know of. There’s one shop I know of that is authorized to sell Halcyon gear, but they’re hundreds of miles away, and I’d be willing to bet that they don’t carry the gear in stock.

4. There’s no shop nearby that provides a DIR-F course (at least none that I’ve found.)

Maybe I should just get ‘normal’ scuba rigs for now, and then consider DIR later?

Are there many of you out there using DIR/hog rigs without DIR-specific training? If so, then what problems did you run into when switching to the DIR config?

Any info or opinions will be much appreciated.

 

[Doc]

will we run into any major problems using them? Would using a DIR rig without ‘proper’ training be a dangerous and/or stupid thing to do? .

You are asking more about a religeon than an equipment arrangement.

It's not just the hardware, it's the mindset.

If asked of a true believer, the answer to the above questions would be "yes" and "yes".

If, however, you look at DIR in less of a fundamentalist light, the philosophy encourages the picking, choosing and selecting the best from all other disciplines using it to make it a holistic approach to better, safer diving. Unflortunately, many have lost sight of the intent and view it as an "all or nothing" formulaic answer.

If you ever want to be accepted into the fold as part of the Borg collective, better drink the Kool Aid and smile. If you want to be a better diver, see what they have to say, understand and perfect their methods and processes, and before you decide to do something different, find and understand something better... that works for you.

(To the bunkers, Lads... Incoming!)

 

[*Floater*]

If you want to use a hog setup then go for it, but it's easier if someone familiar with that style can show you how to ajust the harness correctly, how to stow the longhose, where to clip everything and so forth. If no one in your area can, then you can also figure it out from websites and asking questions here, but it'll take a little longer. Dress for Success is a good start, but I didn't perfect my own hog setup until I took dir-f.

In my opinion it's worth it though because it doesn't hurt your rec diving and if you later decide to get into tech diving then you already have the right gear. And even in rec diving some people prefer doubles which are best used (imo) with a backplate and wing.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You are asking more about a religeon than an equipment arrangement.

It's not just the hardware, it's the mindset.

If asked of a true believer, the answer to the above questions would be "yes" and "yes".

If, however, you look at DIR in less of a fundamentalist light, the philosophy encourages the picking, choosing and selecting the best from all other disciplines using it to make it a holistic approach to better, safer diving. Unflortunately, many have lost sight of the intent and view it as an "all or nothing" formulaic answer.

If you ever want to be accepted into the fold as part of the Borg collective, better drink the Kool Aid and smile. If you want to be a better diver, see what they have to say, understand and perfect their methods and processes, and before you decide to do something different, find and understand something better... that works for you.

(To the bunkers, Lads... Incoming!)

Ignore the man behind the curtain ...

... and RoatanMan, trolling isn't allowed here.

The question would best be asked in a different forum, as ... given the OP's stated diving preferences, he is not really looking for a DIR answer, but rather opinions on the advantages of using a Hogarthian configuration for recreational diving.

If requested by the originator, I will move this topic to the appropriate forum and answer the question. In this forum, I don't believe there is a correct answer except "take the DIR-F class" ... which I do not believe is the OP's purpose in asking.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jasonmh]

Hi,
I'm sure you will get lots of advice on this topic.
I would recommend reading Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving
By Jarrod Jablonski and Dress for Success
By Dan MacKay from here: https://secure.gue.com/catalog/order
They will answer many of your questions.
There is nothing wrong with starting out with a DIR config. If you go for the "normal" rig first you will just end up spending more money in the long run.
There is also alot of good info on the gear setup that is not specific to DIR in the Hogatharian forum.
You can get Halcyon gear online no problem, from places like:
www.extreme-exposure.com
www.fifthd.com
But there are plenty of other BP&W manufacturers around besides Halcyon that you can use too.
That last one also does DIR classes in the PNW, something to think about.
The change to the long hose/bungied backup requires practice, just like anything else in scuba. If you are uncomfortable with the idea of going with the long hose, you could start with the regular hoses, then swtich to the long hose when you take the course or dive with other DIR divers. See if you can find a group of DIR divers in your area. Contrary to what is implied on the internet, I have found all the DIR divers I have meet to be very friendly and extremely willing to help someone who is interested in learning more.
My own experience is that I didn't have any problems switching to a DIR/HOG rig.
It did take about 5-6 dives in a BP to get used to it, but once I did I found it to be so much better than what I was used to. Big thing when you are making the change is to pratice OOA drills with the long hose, so that you will be ready if the time comes that you need to do it for real. And once you get the gear, take the DIR-F class of course.
Good Luck

 

[Adobo]

Mick,

I'll do my best to give yo the no B.S. answer to your question. Mine is a newbie's perspective so, keep that in mind.

If you look at the basic open water configuration employed by DIR divers, it makes a lot of sense. Placement of each component is very clean and efficient. Whenever you want to make additions to facilitate different types of diving, the type of equipment, the usage of equipment and the stowage of that equipment becomes pretty easy in that someone else has thought it through and put it to the test.

However, as clean and as efficient as the DIR configuration is, it is still a good idea to have some instruction as to how to each piece fits and how each piece is used. Some of the bits do take some getting used to.. as an example, unclipping an SPG is something I had difficutly doing for a while. Additionally, proper fit is super important and without proper instruction, how are you supposed to know?

There are some materials out there that do a good job getting you pointed in the right direction. For example, Dan McKay's Dress for Success is all about DIR gear. 5thd-x also has a DVD that shows some of the basic DIR skills while using DIR gear. Both of these items are a supplement to proper instruction. However, it is a place to start.

Regardless of what you decide as far as gear, I would suggest that you visit the pool often so that your newly acquired skills are not forgotten. The last thing you want is to go to your once or twice a year vacation and have some anxieties about not being proficient with mask clearing or finding a displaced reg.

HTH

 

[Xanthro]

If you are only diving 1-2 times per year I wouldn't suggest actual DIR-F training, because your skills will probably not be of a level to take advantage of the course.

There is nothing wrong with this. If people want to vacation dive that's great, but DIR is about dive philosophy more than it is gear.

You are asking about should you have Hogarthian gear setups. I see nothing wrong with this for vacation divers. It packs nicely and is pretty easy to learn.

The one drawback is that initial adjustment of the harness is much harder than simply pulling straps on a standard BC. Without someone to help you it might be difficult to get it setup correctly. With luck, maybe someone on Scubaboard near you could help with this.

 

[lamont]

You probably want to get some training and/or spend some time with divers who dive a long hose in order to learn how to use it. There are some tricks to it, you do have to make certain before every dive that you don't have the long hose caught. You can really CF yourself if you put on the long hose before you put on the necklace, for example.

I don't think any of the rest of it requires any training other than OW to be as safe as any other OW trained diver.

 

[OE2X]

Since we both live in OR, PM me and I'll see if we can get together depending on how away we live from one another.

I'd also be happy to answer any questions you might have.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Working with a mentor isn't a bad idea, no matter what new crap you're dealing with.

God is in the details...