DIR fin technique questions

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hey SBer's,

My last two dives I spent working on DIR style kicking and found that, yes, they do reduce silt kick up significantly. I was able to reduce my silt to zero even when cruising inches from the ground.

I am curious on a few things though:

1) Why do people use the frog kick even when traversing open water well above the bottom? As a former competitive swimmer, frog kick is the most inefficient kick of all three because of the repeated fast acceleration and fast deceleration. Even the DIR style flutter kick with 90* bent knees is much more efficient.

Not just in open water but through kelp forests too. I watched as both of my experienced buddies this weekend frog kick through kelp forests and couldn't help but notice that if for instance kelp snagged on their tanks, the fast acceleration from frog kick would pull them upwards, or otherwise worsen things by pulling tighter. Whereas when I switched to DIR flutter, if something snagged, it would be gradual and I could quickly untangle without as much thrashing around as frog produces.

I can see frog kick's utility when maneuvering in smaller areas but not for longer distance travel or even cruising at depth.

2) Again, as a competitive swimmer, frog kick is really hard on the knees. Those of us who used to race the stroke can attest that long workouts of breaststroke did not leave us with happy knees. While I don't have bad knees yet, I'm expecting some in a couple of years due to rowing injuries. Does DIR actually address this or is it just a HTFU issue for them?

If you do have bad knees, how do deal with frog kick? Or do you just not do it?

In the end, I just don't see the heavy emphasis on DIR frog kick being correct or necessary. Yes, it is a kick that has uses and should be used should the situation call for it. But to use it as a primary mode of movement? It seems impractical.

Because diving isn't swimming ... and speed isn't the objective.

And the frog kick as used on scuba diving existed long before DIR did ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Blackwood]

And the frog kick as used on scuba diving existed long before DIR did ...

Yah, but putting DIR in the subject line is a guaranteed way to get people to read your thread.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 12 (11 members and 1 guests)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Because you ain't cool unless you frog kick all the time.

Most people, be they DIR or recreational divers, don't bother to put a lot of thoughts into scuba. They take everything they're taught as gospel.

Here's your sign ... :classic:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lenaxia]

Thanks for the deeper insight guys. I am afterall still a novice diver still in the fresh post-cert dive phase so I still have a good ways to go. I do plan on furthering my technique in diving as every extra minute in the water is well worth it.

I'll look into taking a DIR class in the future and its good to know that there is more to it than what I have seen thus far.

 

[Blackwood]

I'll look into taking a DIR class in the future and its good to know that there is more to it than what I have seen thus far.

The common misconception is that DIR is skills-based. Couldn't be further from the truth. DIR is philosophy-based. The skills are merely a necessity.

 

[highlandfarmwv]

I havent had dir training but myfavorite kick is a kind of modified scissor where one foot snaps from abent position to a straight one, aybee sorry of aartial flutter. It will go fast orslow with minimal effort. (never could do a good frog kick when youngand do competetive swimming). Guess this is also similiar to a onefooted whip kick. Stirs no silk even when coseto bottom

 

[ZzzKing]

I never realized that the Dee Eye Arr developed the frog kick. You learn something new every day I suppose...

 

[Rainer]

Holy crap, I didn't either.

Oh wait, where again was it claimed that "DIR" (a philosophy) developed the frog kick in this thread? I don't remember seeing that now that I think about it. Use != invent.

I never realized that the Dee Eye Arr developed the frog kick. You learn something new every day I suppose...

 

[Superlyte27]

Haha, um, Frog Kick for anti-silt was around LONG before DIR was... So that's funny to me, but to answer your question....

The reason I use Frog Kick exclusively almost always is because of a Cave Diver I met more than a decade ago by the name of Mark L.

His frog kick was faster than most people's flutter kick.

If I want to be that efficient, it's going to take decades of practice, just like Mark has decades of practice.

 

[ben_wilson3301]

Thats what I love about Scubaboard, even through all the in-fighting I can still learn something. Being a beginner from the midwest nearly no one has even heard of DIR, let alone able to teach it. Don't get me wrong, my instructor is very good, but doesn't put a lot of stress on types of fin kicks and more on other things like safety and buoyancy. Being a competitive swimmer as well I also thought that a frog kick was a terrible idea and having split fins myself have tried it to no avail. Now after seeing a video it makes much more sense. But I think the original question still applies. When properly practiced and executed why wouldn't a standard fin kick which uses larger muscle groups work better in open ocean off the bottom. Not so much from a lower SAC rate (which probably has to do with going slower in the first place) but from a physics point of view. To me the standard flutter appears more efficient.