DIR-F class will now be a certification class

[SeaJay]

Genesis once bubbled...

Trust me - I've driven a Roadster, and you want that car. Just buy it, ok?

I already own one. I'm wondering where that comment came from. Are you from one of the other boards that I frequent?

In fact, I'm thinking of selling the Z3 and getting myself a new truck. It would certainly hold a lot more tanks! But what's that got to do with this topic? Was this just a coincidence, or was there a point being made? I mean no offense by that... It would just be a really strange coincidence...

Nobody's asking you to buy anything. I'm telling you to test drive it first. Go take the class. Until you've been behind the wheel, all that you've heard won't really make much sense.

In fact, as far as I know, there's still a guarantee on the course... A money-back guarantee. If you don't think it does you any good, then you get a refund. Or something like that. You'll have to ask MHK for more details on that. To the best of my knowlege, I don't think that anyone's ever asked for their money back. I don't know the details completely... It never even crossed my mind. I learned way too much to even think about that.

"Why take the course?" Well, you certainly seem to have a bunch of really great questions... And serious concerns. I thought you might like to have your questions answered. Why not simply address them on this board? Well...

Why not just read some books and consider yourself a graduate of Harvard? Why not just argue a few points, have a debate, and then consider yourself an MBA? Why not just give you the answers?

The truth is that the people teaching these classes have the answers, I promise. They invite questions and do not "preach." For cryin' out loud, if there's something better in terms of skills or equipment or style of diving or whatever... They want to know about it. They are not closed-minded, despite what you hear. See? That's another misinformed myth that's prevalent on the 'net. Unbiased. I found out for myself.

So if you really want your questions answered, then by all means, you are invited to attend, I'm sure. Simply put, there's no way these things could properly be covered in a few, or even a few hundred, posts. They need to be taught in person. And practiced. And videoed so you can see.

And if you choose to go, then great. If not, it's no skin off of my back. Why do I need to give you a reason to go to the class? It isn't doing ME any good if you attend or not.

I was simply pointing out that if you've never taken the class, then you haven't experienced it. And if you haven't experienced it, well... Then your opinion on the matter is... Uneducated. Unfounded. Based on myth alone. Ignorant. I don't mean that to sound offensive, even though I know it does. I'm inviting you to learn the truth. (See previous post, "The Truth Comes Out.")

I'm not saying that you are wrong. I'll leave that up to you. I'm just saying to give it a try. You certainly seem eager to know, or eager to point out DIR deficiencies. That's cool... Go show those guys.

...But if you aren't going to step up to the plate and do something about it, then you're no better than some guy in the grandstands yelling at the bully in the ring. Doesn't matter to us if you step into the ring or not...

But if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is, then by all means... I'll even cheer you on. I swear I will.

The long and short of it is that I see you throwin' all kinds of punches at DIR... And DIR never taking a swing back. It doesn't have to.

If you won't accept the kindly invitation, then accept the challenge. The rest of us already know the results. Someone so passionate as yourself certainly would be a great asset once you're fully informed.

Peace.

:mean:

 

[SeaJay]

WreckWriter once bubbled...

With all said, I really don't care for GUE. Its a personal thing because I don't like to be disciminated against. I feel its my right to consider, and call, them pricks for doing so.

WW

Yeah, I smoke too. I enjoy a good cigar every now and then. Sometimes two or even three a day. I'm not happy with this idea of being "discriminated against" either, WW.

Maybe it's got something to do with the Carribbean in us, bud. Maybe it's got something to do with the Hemingway in us. I dunno.

But the bottom line is that I can be a really great diver, or I can be a really great smoker. The choice is that clear. Right now, I'm a really great smoker and a fair diver. I'd like to change that bias, so I'm changing my life. There's more too.

It's not the first time I've changed my lifestyle. My previous lifestyle changes were for lesser reasons, too. So I know I can change, and I want to change.

Please don't move the bar while I'm trying to reach for it.

WW, you're invited.

 

[MHK]

Genesis once bubbled...
"take the course, then give us an opinion"?

Why?

Why the mantra? Why not have the people promoting the course give me a good reason to take the course before I spend the money? Why would one "dive in" so to speak, without the questions being answered first? Especially when the questions are raised not by some random person on the Internet, but rather based on commentary by one of the GUE founders!

Genesis,

I'm struggling to understand your issue(s). Perhaps much of your consternation stems from a varying ideological perspective. It seems to me that you lack the understanding of what GUE is setting out to acomplish. Our goal, quit simply, isn't to convince you that you need to be convinced. We put out more free information then any other agency in the world. We put out free video's, free seminars and answer questions endlessly to those that are seriously seeking information. We try to avoid getting into debates with some that are simply looking to poke holes for argument sakes. You suggested that I somehow or another didn't provide adequate responses to some questions. I disagree, but I'm happy to revisit the issue, but bear in mind that not all concepts can be, nor should they be, discussed fully in a scuba forum..

We welcome honest debate and are happy to exchange views, but too many on scuab forums the idea of engaging in a DIR debate has become sport for all too many. I laugh at this frequently because the people that usually want to initiate the banter are usually the first to offer that the DIR crowd are interent bullies.

If you have questions by all means ask them and I'll see if I can respond. If not you can reach me at 310-550-8004, I find that direct communication tends to avoid public posturing..

BTW, I tell everyone of my students that if you honestly feel that after taking my class that you didn't learn anything I will refund every penny, the same applies to you.

I have no desire to get into a fight with you, I'm happy to answer any questions but I simply don't understand what you are so upset about.

Regards

Michael Kane

 

[Genesis]

The Z3 thing was a coincidence......

The GUE thing though is real.

There's a whole lot of things that I just can't get my arms around in their proscriptions, and I don't spend money with people who won't answer questions until they have my money.

Like I said, I've done the cult thing before in a religious context, and this just smells and feels too much like that previous experience. It left a VERY lasting impact on my life, to the point that perhaps I'm overly cautious about such things now. So be it.

There are CLEARLY some things that GUE does and says - and its not internet conjecture - these are THEIR official published statements, some of them repeated right here by MHK on this thread - that are so far out there in the extreme that there is no explanation necessary - or possible.

The smoking thing is one of them - and I'm a non-smoker. But, I campaigned mightily against the recent amendment in Florida to ban it in private businesses, even though I would prefer a smoke-free restaurant personally. Why? Because its a matter of private property rights - not the matter of some do-good Nazi to tell me what to do with my own property in that context. When it comes to your PERSONAL health, there is no more fundamental right. To refuse to train you because you choose to take 10 or 20 years off your life expectancy is irrational. Its their right to make such a decision, but it remains irrational.

Again - take the class? Why? Because it will teach me something? Ok. I'll accept that. I freely admit that I'm not the world's greatest diver, and that my skills can stand improvement. I work on them in one form or another every time I get in the water as part of my dive. Then again I would say that such a fact - that skills can stand improvement - is a factual statement for essentially all divers.

For me, at least, GUE is heading in a direction that turns me off, rather than on. I don't NEED a GUE "DIR certified card" to consider myself a decent diver. I don't need to drink the Kool Aid.

I'm willing to learn, but cults don't suit my personality well, especially given my previous experience with them. So, from where I sit anyway, and as my understanding sits with what and how GUE is doing these things today, I'll pass.

Maybe in the future - but only if the public posture of GUE - and its instructors - looks less like a cult meeting and more like buying dive training.

 

[WreckWriter]

SeaJay once bubbled...
Yeah, I smoke too. I enjoy a good cigar every now and then. Sometimes two or even three a day. I'm not happy with this idea of being "discriminated against" either, WW.

Maybe it's got something to do with the Carribbean in us, bud. Maybe it's got something to do with the Hemingway in us. I dunno.

But the bottom line is that I can be a really great diver, or I can be a really great smoker. The choice is that clear. Right now, I'm a really great smoker and a fair diver. I'd like to change that bias, so I'm changing my life. There's more too.

It's not the first time I've changed my lifestyle. My previous lifestyle changes were for lesser reasons, too. So I know I can change, and I want to change.

Please don't move the bar while I'm trying to reach for it.

WW, you're invited.

It wouldn't bug me so much if it was the line right above "must have proper weight/height proportion" or something like that but they don't dare say that. They figure, and rightly, that they can nail us without legal problems but the others they can't. How many fat tech and cave divers with GUE cards are there (trust me, a bunch)?

That's not the bottom line CJ. The bottom line is that you can be a great diver with any of several different agency cards. The best divers I know, some of whom you mentioned in a previous post, have cards from other agencies.

GUE will move in whatever way they choose perfectly well without me. I've already taken the only course I wanted anyway.

WW

 

[SeaJay]

MHK once bubbled...


If you have questions by all means ask them and I'll see if I can respond. If not you can reach me at 310-550-8004, I find that direct communication tends to avoid public posturing..

BTW, I tell everyone of my students that if you honestly feel that after taking my class that you didn't learn anything I will refund every penny, the same applies to you.

<snip>

Regards

Michael Kane

Wow! Too cool. There ya go, Gen-man. Go get 'em. I'm behind you 100%. Seriously.

That's one heck of an offer from "da man" himself. If you do decide to find out "the truth," I'm there for ya, man.

Why?

Because I was once exactly where you are.

 

[MHK]

Genesis once bubbled...
The Z3 thing was a coincidence......

The GUE thing though is real.

There's a whole lot of things that I just can't get my arms around in their proscriptions, and I don't spend money with people who won't answer questions until they have my money.

There are CLEARLY some things that GUE does and says - and its not internet conjecture - these are THEIR official published statements, some of them repeated right here by MHK on this thread - that are so far out there in the extreme that there is no explanation necessary - or possible.

The smoking thing is one of them - and I'm a non-smoker.

Genesis,

Once again I don't understand your issue(s), and I'd be happy to address them..

As to your smoking concern, our view is simple. In addition to smoking being an otherwise unhealthy idea, it speaks directly to diving inasmuch as up to 25% of the smoke inhaled binds to a diver's hemoglobin. Hemoglobin is what transports oxygen, which if limited by up to 25%, means that it's more likely that a diver can get bent. That is particularly more important as you move into upper level classes such as technical diving wherein a diver is in decompression and uses elevated oxygen mixes to accelarate decompression. I don't want a student in my class that is 25% less efficient, but if that is your choice there are other agencies that are more relaxed in that regard.

Also, I just reviewed the thread and once again I'm struggling to find any statements that I've made that are "so far out there that it's inexplainable" I'm happy to speak to the issues, but so far I see much hyperbole and little direct questions..

Regards,

Michael Kane

 

[SeaJay]

Genesis once bubbled...
The Z3 thing was a coincidence......

That's amazing. Too bizarre.

There's a whole lot of things that I just can't get my arms around in their proscriptions...

I'm right there with ya. Felt the same way.

Like I said, I've done the cult thing before in a religious context, and this just smells and feels too much like that previous experience. It left a VERY lasting impact on my life, to the point that perhaps I'm overly cautious about such things now. So be it.

Hey! Me too! We have a lot in common. Okay, mine wasn't a religious cult... But it was network marketing. Sheesh. To be honest, I was pretty good at it... I just can't believe I got mixed up in that thing. What a mess. Glad I'm out,

Again - take the class? Why? Because it will teach me something? Ok. I'll accept that. I freely admit that I'm not the world's greatest diver...

Well, you're one-up on me then. I was pretty convinced...

Well, maybe not that extreme. But I had confidence in my ability, before I was asked to do a few very simple skills that I could not handle. The truth was hard to swallow.

...and that my skills can stand improvement. I work on them in one form or another every time I get in the water as part of my dive. Then again I would say that such a fact - that skills can stand improvement - is a factual statement for essentially all divers.

Well, cool... Then it sounds like you've already got quite a bit going for you. You should have no problems with this then.

Should you change your mind one day, let me know... Lord knows I'll still be taking this course again.

 

[WreckWriter]

MHK once bubbled...
As to your smoking concern, our view is simple. In addition to smoking being an otherwise unhealthy idea, it speaks directly to diving inasmuch as up to 25% of the smoke inhaled binds to a diver's hemoglobin. Hemoglobin is what transports oxygen, which if limited by up to 25%, means that it's more likely that a diver can get bent. That is particularly more important as you move into upper level classes such as technical diving wherein a diver is in decompression and uses elevated oxygen mixes to accelarate decompression.

OK, agreed, smoking is a generally unhealthy idea. As to the physiology as it relates to diving which you mention here, I have one of those specific questions you were asking for, perhaps you know the answer?

When you speak of the "smoke" binding to hemoglobin I assume you meant that the carbon monoxide within the smoke binds to the hemoglobin 25% more effectively than oxygen, am I correct?

Assuming that I am, just how long, after my last smoke, does this material (be it carbon monoxide or "smoke") remain active in my bloodstream binding to my hemoglobin and thereby preventing oxygen from binding to same?

This is really a serious question, for you or anyone who knows the answer. My guess is that the answer is "not long" but I could be wrong.

WW

 

[Spectre]

WreckWriter once bubbled...
Assuming that I am, just how long, after my last smoke, does this material (be it carbon monoxide or "smoke") remain active in my bloodstream binding to my hemoglobin and thereby preventing oxygen from binding to same?

My understanding is 6 hours... but I completely don't remember where I heard that number from [I believe it was from a doctor/diver friend of mine].