DIR Doing Their Thang!

[GDI]

:doctor: Well the comments keep coming. So let me back up here a bit. From what I have seen of DIR Instructors is that they have taken an approach to better develop the basic skills of divers before releasing them to the world. BRAVO. Yet you are saying that you need to be GUE to be DIR - Really than I guess I can rule out excellent Cave diving instructors like Larry Green. I am all for the DIR concept or should I say Marketing plan. Any good instructor has high standards and expects that of their students and with those standards comes a correct attitude reguarding diving. "Ridgid" was perhaps a incorrect word to direct at any DIR instructor. After all any good instructor places high standards for themselves and their students and would be flexible in how they teach subject to the students learning abilities. " Strict Criteria" was that you who made that statement Detroit Diver? Well is that not another way of saying standards and are not standards always subject to human personalities? Charlie99 you are right "attitude" is a very big part of correct diving habits and every diver needs to be taught to have the correct attitude again this in the end comes down to the individual instructor who follows the guidelines of their agency. Do I think the agencies have reduced their standards over the years? To some degree yes perhaps they have. If GUE a fairly younge, small training agency is attempting to raise the bar then BRAVO to them. If they call what they offer DIR then a great marketing plan it is. But to say other dive instructors do not teach DIR or whatever they call it, is wrong. After all who is to say that the first DIR instructor was any better than the rest? The "OLD" school of divers and I thank you for your example John C Ratliff. Yes this is how I learned. I had to prove physical fitness, develop a safe attitude, I repeated skills until my instructor was blue in the face and then we did them again, fast , slow, blind folded. My classes today reflect this, but they are not military like. Old Time divers did have to study much more in depth (sorry for the pun) the academics of diving as well as the practical skills. We did not have the tables or computers they have today but then that is where the "NEW" technology is welcomed. We can thank these old divers for inventing the BCD's and Regs we use today. We can thank them for the teaching we use in our curriculums and yes we can thank them for the breaking down the academics into blocks for easier learning. We can thank them for the process of Accident Analysis and the lessons they learned. Would I be willing to sit in on a DIR-F or Tech 1 class, yes why not I might see and learn something new, I'm sure I would. But then for an old dog I think I have a good attitude for learning. Contrary to what some of you might think I know I have the right equipment with a consistant standard config reguardless of what type of diving I'm doing. So Doing-it-Right I believe does take some of the old with some of the new and to any instructor who improves themselves by these principles and expects the same for their students then GOOD FOR YOU. DIR is a great concept the approach that often accompanies it (attitude) is askew in some dive individuals People are people and some have a better than thou bad ass attitude.. There is a triangle that I use to decide if I make the dive. Side 1: Equipment: is it correct for this dive and the environment, Side 2: Training: is it sufficient for the dive and the environment, Side 3 (the Base) Attitude: Do I have the right mind set for this dive and the environment.
There are no new secret scuba skills and not one person knows everything.DFC5343 I still read my old book from time to time.
I thank-you all for your valued comments.
Rick Murcar aka GDI

 

[detroit diver]

:doctor: .......... If they call what they offer DIR then a great marketing plan it is. But to say other dive instructors do not teach DIR or whatever they call it, is wrong. After all who is to say that the first DIR instructor was any better than the rest? ..........
Rick Murcar aka GDI

Rick,

I think I just realized that you have no idea what DIR is or what is involved in any of their classes. DIR is a specific and holistic way to dive.


There are only 32 DIR instuctors. That's it. Why are there only 32 instructors? Because GUE does not want to water down their instruction just to raise numbers. They don't really care if someone doesn't want to learn DIR. They only want divers who want to learn their system. Period.

I don't know who Larry Green is. He might be a fanstatic instructor, but he does not teach DIR. He might teach some things that are within the DIR criterion, but that does not make him DIR. Same way PADI instructors can't call themselves Navy Seal Instructors-they haven't gone through the training and accreditation to do so.

It is a whole system approach. That's what makes it different from anything out there. Some teach bits, and some teach pieces, but teaching the whole package is what DIR is all about.

As for your "strict criteria" comment, attitude is only part of the equation. Like I said before, it is a whole package, and you can't take out pieces of it and call it DIR.

 

[JeffG]

There are only 32 DIR instuctors. That's it. Why are there only 32 instructors? Because GUE does not want to water down their instruction just to raise numbers. They don't really care if someone doesn't want to learn DIR. They only want divers who want to learn their system. Period.

DIR is a system and can be taught by people other than GUE. Is just that at GUE all you will get is DIR, for the others agencies....Some instructures will, others won't

 

[GDI]

Rick,

I think I just realized that you have no idea what DIR is or what is involved in any of their classes. DIR is a specific and holistic way to dive.


There are only 32 DIR instuctors. That's it. Why are there only 32 instructors? Because GUE does not want to water down their instruction just to raise numbers. They don't really care if someone doesn't want to learn DIR. They only want divers who want to learn their system. Period.

I don't know who Larry Green is. He might be a fanstatic instructor, but he does not teach DIR. He might teach some things that are within the DIR criterion, but that does not make him DIR. Same way PADI instructors can't call themselves Navy Seal Instructors-they haven't gone through the training and accreditation to do so.

It is a whole system approach. That's what makes it different from anything out there. Some teach bits, and some teach pieces, but teaching the whole package is what DIR is all about.

As for your "strict criteria" comment, attitude is only part of the equation. Like I said before, it is a whole package, and you can't take out pieces of it and call it DIR.

I understand that DIR is a Holistic approach, that I have read in some articles from DIR sources. I see it as a complete way of life style and diving. I support them but - it is a marketing plan, only unlike some others it at least has great intent.

 

[fgray1]

Hey Fred,

When you're done stuffing everyone into a pigeon hole, give us a call. In the meantime, we'll ignore you. You should get together with Painter and Cincy. You'd make a great team.

You just made my point.
DIR divers are so easy to spot. Your doing DIR a disservice with your attitudes.
DIR has alot of good ppoints to it but the attitudes from the praticing divers needs help.

Fred

 

[roakey]

You just made my point.
DIR divers are so easy to spot. Your doing DIR a disservice with your attitudes.
DIR has alot of good ppoints to it but the attitudes from the praticing divers needs help.

Actually Fred, you gave a wonderful example of why we consistently hear "All the DIR folks I've met face to face are such nice people, willing to explain things, etc., etc., etc. but on the board you're all mean..."

The reason is that folks who approach DIR divers face to face follow the social norms of not insulting people right out of the gate and we're polite back.

When you come in here, hiding behind a keyboard and insulting us ("Drivers that take the DIR course do so not to just improve their diving skills but so they can say 'ANYTHING YOU CA DO I CAN DO BETTER' It's an ego trip for them."), don't go crying to mommy when we respond in-kind.

You want to know the major problem with DIR? It's the insulting, closed-minded people that don't want to challenge what they think they know and therefore reject the DIR approach not out of an informed position, but ignorance. The "problem" with DIR isn't us, Fred, the problem's staring you back from the mirror.

Roak

 

[roakey]

[DIR] is a marketing plan, only unlike some others it at least has great intent.

What are they marketing?

Can't be equipment, GUE manufacturers no equipment, and even Halcyon and EE doesn't have that wide a selection of equipment, the vast majority of cost to the diver is in exposure protection, fins, BCs, tanks, regulators, etc. none of which have to be Halcyon to be DIR...

So it's not equipment, so it must be training. Well, that doesn't make sense, since not only is GUE a tiny agency compared to anyone else (and actively LIMITING its growth), but it's probably the most inexpensive way to get trained. To learn to dive and mix Trimix with IANTD, you have to take the deco class, the Nitrox mixing class, the Trimix mixing class and the Trimix diving class.

You get this all in one Tech-1 class with GUE...

So if it's not equipment, and it's not training, just how is DIR a marketing ploy again?

Roak

 

[fgray1]

Actually Fred, you gave a wonderful example of why we consistently hear "All the DIR folks I've met face to face are such nice people, willing to explain things, etc., etc., etc. but on the board you're all mean..."

The reason is that folks who approach DIR divers face to face follow the social norms of not insulting people right out of the gate and we're polite back.

When you come in here, hiding behind a keyboard and insulting us ("Drivers that take the DIR course do so not to just improve their diving skills but so they can say 'ANYTHING YOU CA DO I CAN DO BETTER' It's an ego trip for them."), don't go crying to mommy when we respond in-kind.

You want to know the major problem with DIR? It's the insulting, closed-minded people that don't want to challenge what they think they know and therefore reject the DIR approach not out of an informed position, but ignorance. The "problem" with DIR isn't us, Fred, the problem's staring you back from the mirror.

Roak

Do you read what you write.
You keep proving my point. If what I say wasn't true you wouldn't be insulted because it wouldn't apply to you. But as we all can see it does.
The same attitude shows even when you try to hide it. Your like a bunch of kids that have to let everyone know your just a little bit better than the others. Your legends in your own minds.
Fred

 

[MikeFerrara]

So it's not equipment, so it must be training. Well, that doesn't make sense, since not only is GUE a tiny agency compared to anyone else (and actively LIMITING its growth), but it's probably the most inexpensive way to get trained. To learn to dive and mix Trimix with IANTD, you have to take the deco class, the Nitrox mixing class, the Trimix mixing class and the Trimix diving class.

You get this all in one Tech-1 class with GUE...

So if it's not equipment, and it's not training, just how is DIR a marketing ploy again?

Roak

A minor correction...

Assuming the desire to avoid deep dives on air, with IANTD you'd need to take Advanced Nitrox (which can now be combined with recreational trimix), Normoxic trimix and trimix. With GUE you'll need to take DIRF tech 1 and tech 2. The same number of classes for comparable cost.

Technically with IANTD, blending is a seperate class but there isn't any reason you couldn't do it at the same time and I doubt it'll cost any more than doing tech 1 and 2. It also gives the flexability to just take a blending class if you if that's all you need. There are other ways to break things out of the IANTD line up but you don't have to.

Depending on where you live there's also a better chance that you won't have to fly an instructor in and spend a small fortune paying his expenses. I'll admit that at this time you might have to do a little more research to be sure of getting a good instructor but they're out there and I know a few.

 

[Soggy]

Not everyone can learn or observes in the same way.

I think you will find that GUE doesn't claim that DIR and the teaching methods are for everyone. If you like it, take a class, if you don't, don't.