DIR and Smoking (Split from DIR Fin thread)

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detroit diver:
Are you trying to say that monitored, professional decompression has the same risk as recreational amateur decompression?

No, that would be absurd. Please don't use that sophomoric debating trick on me.

detroit diver:
You can't compare saturation rig divers to any amateur diver. And if you could, the fact is that the rig companies and their divers have one set of risk factors, and GUE has their own. If someone doesn't like the standards, there are other agencies willing to take their money to be trained. No one has a gun to their head forcing them to take a DIR class.

Quite true. But one can usefully and sensibly debate what the correct approach is, and if there is one correct approach for all people.
I am glad that you agree that risk factors, and therefore the methods adopted to deal with them, vary depending on what you are doing and who you are.
That is exactly my point.

Peter
 
The Surgeon General never said anything about smoking the competition....
 
Well tomorrow I'm quitting after 20 yrs, just got back from Walmart and got me the patches, went to the doctor on Friday and got a perscription for Zyban (although my insurance won't cover it...makes no sense, you'd think they'd support it.), this combo is what ultimately worked for my mother.

It's time, my health, my kids, and yes, my newfound love of scuba has driven me to this point.

The patches worked well for me 10 yrs ago, ultimately I failed myself after 6 months, and I think that was the last time I seriously tried. The patches did their job, and the USCG gave em to me FREE, that was when they were still new and only avaiable via prescription.

Sorry to hijack the thread, I know this isn't related to DIR or DIR-F class, although I would like to take it someday.

Derek SWay to go man, were the same age, I guess it's just that time to say NO more. Amazing how quickly the stats rack up. Did you stay on the patch as prescribed? Shorter, Longer? any advice is welcome, you can PM me.
 
From today's Daily Breeze(SoCal);

Hermosa triathlete beat cancer, tobacco and alcohol
Bad habits almost took Ginny Shoren out. She survived a battle with tongue cancer and now tells her cautionary story to students.
By Deepa Bharath
Daily Breeze

Fifteen years ago, Ginny Shoren was as far away from becoming a triathlete as a "Star Wars" movie is from bombing at the box office.
The Hermosa Beach resident and substitute teacher was addicted to alcohol and smoked two packs of cigarettes a day. The alcohol habit she managed to shake off, but not before the forces of life made her get on her knees and beg for help.
Looking back, Shoren realizes that her tryst with alcoholism was not half as bad as her furious fight with tongue cancer, which forced her to stop smoking. Now she helps others who are in the predicament she was in not long ago.
Shoren, 57, told a sixth-grade class at Manhattan Beach Middle School on Friday about her long journey, from addict to athlete.
On June 5, Shoren will participate in the Danskin Women's Triathlon at Bonelli Park in San Dimas, which will include a half-mile swim, 13-mile bike ride and 3.1-mile run or walk. The event raises money for what is now Shoren's favorite cause -- cancer research.
"Years ago, the only way I'd run was if someone chased me with a gun," she said, as some middle school students laughed and others smiled.
Diagnosed in May 2001, Shoren lost part of her tongue, the floor of her mouth and her jaw bone to cancer. It took six surgeries to root out the disease and reconstruct her mouth, which was mutilated by the cancer. The surgeries were followed by four months of physical therapy during which she learned to talk again.
The surgery involved taking a piece of her leg bone or fibula and replacing her jaw with it. Surgeons took skin from her hand and attached it to the base of her mouth, which is now held together by an implant-supported denture.
"For a while, I had hair growing on the base of my mouth, just as it would on your hands," she said, with a stoic smile. "It was weird."
What floored Shoren was not what she had to go through, but the results the surgeries produced. Once tongue-tied, she could speak clearly again. Her face looked "normal."
"It's amazing how far research in this area has come," Shoren said. "And I'm the living proof of it." She passed out pictures to students of her scarred face with a multitude of tubes going in and out. The sixth-graders took one look and gasped.
"I couldn't eat solid food," she said. "All I had was liquids that were pumped into me through these tubes."
Shoren hoped the horror of those possible scenarios might help young people make the right choices.
"I started smoking when I was 15," she said. "And I smoked for 38 years. I'm cancer free now today. But I don't know for sure how tomorrow will be because I smoked for as long as I did."
Shoren wonders, but she doesn't let the what-ifs engulf her will to live.
"If I kept thinking about it, I wouldn't be able to move," she said.
So she wears a T-shirt that reads "Teens Kick Ash" and tells her story to students.
"It's all about being proactive," said Shoren, who is also a spokeswoman for the American Cancer Society. "These kids are the future and if I can arm them with the knowledge, then they have the power to make the choices they need to make."
Training for and participating in the triathlons boosts her energy levels and morale, Shoren said.
"My goal in these races is not to win but to cross the finish line standing up," she said. "And at these events, you'll see these healthy young people flying past you and they'll turn back, pump their fists and tell you: 'You go, girl.' I think that's awesome and it makes me feel real good."
Shoren's teammates who participate at these events under the banner of Team Survivor Los Angeles, a nonprofit that offers free fitness programs for women afflicted with cancer, form a close-knit support group.
"I don't feel like I have to do this all alone," Shoren said. "They're there for me any time of day or night. It's like this most exclusive therapeutic club I never wanted to join."
The first triathlon she entered was in Sacramento two years ago.
"It took me 3½ hours to complete it and I was drenched in sweat," she said. "But I made it."
A lot of it has to do with Shoren's personality and inner strength, said Ni Bueno, her trainer at Team Survivor.
"Ginny is very determined and always willing to work hard," she said. "Once she sets her mind to it, she sees no obstacles."
Shoren also backpacked with the team to the top of Mt. Whitney -- California's highest mountain -- which ranks high on her list of accomplishments.
As she described the hazards of smoking to the class Friday, Shoren also spoke about the damage that chewing tobacco can cause. A boy in one of the last rows stood up and talked about his baseball coach who had chewed tobacco once.
Shoren nodded.
"A doctor in UCLA once told me that if you're chewing tobacco, you might as well pour gasoline into your mouth and light it with a match," she said.
"Are you kidding?" a girl asked, bewildered.
"No," Shoren said.
She added with a hint of a smile: "If you must chew, chew bubble gum."
 
Debate trick? I wasn't the one who made the original comparison, it was you:
"Are you joking? Have you ever hung out with a north sea oil rig diver? These guys are compressed on trimix for days, and smoke like chimneys when they get ashore! And you should see the amount of alchohol they consume."
As we are talking about amateur divers in this forum, your inclusion of oil rig divers seems like an attempt to focus the discussion in the wrong direction. Rig divers and recreational divers decompressions are like apples and oranges.



Peter McGuinness:
No, that would be absurd. Please don't use that sophomoric debating trick on me.



Quite true. But one can usefully and sensibly debate what the correct approach is, and if there is one correct approach for all people.
I am glad that you agree that risk factors, and therefore the methods adopted to deal with them, vary depending on what you are doing and who you are.
That is exactly my point.

Peter

The risk factors I referred to include a couple of different issues. The most prominent (IMO), is the demand for paid divers to complete a task within a specified time frame. There are limited numbers of divers to do this, and the commercial dive operation may have to put up with behavior that they would not normally condone. In addition, most of the rig operation have on-site chambers.

None of the training organizations have to put up with the issues above. Some take a loose approach to risk factors, and others take a more conservative approach. GUE's restrictions attempt to narrow this down even further, trying to ensure that those trainees are in the best condition possible BEFORE they introduce the risk.
 
shark.byte.usa:
Derek S Way to go man, were the same age, I guess it's just that time to say NO more. Amazing how quickly the stats rack up. Did you stay on the patch as prescribed? Shorter, Longer? any advice is welcome, you can PM me.

Sorry, was at Dutch Springs this weekend and unable to respond. I used the 21MG/Day patch for 3 months, then dropped down to the 14MG/Day patch for 2 weeks and then just stopped using them at all. Tuesday will be 19 weeks and I have no desire to start again. Sure, I do have cravings, but they last like a milisecond and I'm back to reality. :D

Quite honestly, when you're truly ready, the patches, gum, welbutrin (zyban) don't matter. I used the patch for a short time as a back-up, but I was ready. I probably could have quit cold turkey just as well. I just need to keep reminding myself that it just isn't worth it. Soon enough I won't have any cravings at all. :14:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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