rougediver
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Why does PADI Dive Shops put down on people that has their certification through NAUI? They both use the same Navy Dive Tables right. Is there any difference in the Dive Agencies?
Differences between Dive Agencies?
- Thread starter rougediver
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This will no doubt be a debated topic.
You will certainly hear the mantra over and over again, “It’s the instructor, not the agency that matters.” I agree with this stance.
You will certainly hear the mantra over and over again, “It’s the instructor, not the agency that matters.” I agree with this stance.
fisherdvm
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I wouldn't paint with such a broad stroke. It should be why do some PADI shop put down .... On scubaboard, the question is reversed: Why do some XXXX certified so, and so, enjoy putting down PADI instruction.
I think Teamcasa said it best. And we should just leave it as that.
I think Teamcasa said it best. And we should just leave it as that.
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No professional from any agency should be putting down other agencies. That being said, unfortunately many feel the need to boost themselves by downing others.
The main differences between the agencies is teaching philosophies. All the agencies teach pretty much the same thing, and all of them strive to produce programs which help you become a safe competent diver. Contrary to what is said in advertisements, no one agency is head and shoulders above the next. Teamcasa and fisherdvm are totally correct when they say it's the Instructor, not the agencies that really matters. I've met extraodinery instructors from every agency, and I've met terrible instructors from every agency.
For the record, NAUI uses a conservative version of the U.S. Navy Tables, while PADI uses dive tables developed through it's Diving Sciences and Technology (DSAT) division. Both tables are well proven.
Hope this helps.
George
PADI MSDT
The main differences between the agencies is teaching philosophies. All the agencies teach pretty much the same thing, and all of them strive to produce programs which help you become a safe competent diver. Contrary to what is said in advertisements, no one agency is head and shoulders above the next. Teamcasa and fisherdvm are totally correct when they say it's the Instructor, not the agencies that really matters. I've met extraodinery instructors from every agency, and I've met terrible instructors from every agency.
For the record, NAUI uses a conservative version of the U.S. Navy Tables, while PADI uses dive tables developed through it's Diving Sciences and Technology (DSAT) division. Both tables are well proven.
Hope this helps.
George
PADI MSDT
As a PADI and NAUI Instructor, I never put another Agency down.
Unless somthing has changed PADI's RDP and NAUI's RGBM Table are not the Navy last time I looked. Teamcasa and fisherdvm are right. I took up diving to have fun and not try to belittle someone else.
Unless somthing has changed PADI's RDP and NAUI's RGBM Table are not the Navy last time I looked. Teamcasa and fisherdvm are right. I took up diving to have fun and not try to belittle someone else.
Teamcasa:
It can be, I've seen excellent instructors from all agencies, but usually instructors from the same agency teach similar classes. The agency is usually the biggest factor in the quality of a class.
Standingbear56:
Not even close.
In another place a rather arrogant non-diver insisted that all ***** (a particular agency, it doesn't matter which) dive shops are the same, that the courses are tightly prescribed so there's no difference between them whoever teaches them, so go for the cheapest. No amount of persuasion would sway his view - he clearly thought choosing who will teach you to dive is much the same as deciding where to buy your next packet of frozen peas.
While I would like to agree with Walter's oft stated view that the agency is far more important than the instructor, I'm afraid my experience is contrary to that. I was away from my dive center for a while some time ago and was relying on a particular instructor who had worked with me on and off for a few years. After I got back I discovered that he had certified someone as a PADI rescue diver after 2 days work and as divemaster during the remainder of his one week holiday. I fired him and told the agency of my misgivings - so far as I know they did nothing about what can only be regarded as bogus qualifications.
I also know that it is customary at some, maybe many, PADI diveshops for the CESA (controlled emergency swimming ascent) in open water to be performed without an upline. I was recently asked to teach an OW course for another dive shop, and when I asked about an upline I was told that they didn't have one and had never used one. This is stated by PADI as a serious breach of standards, but if those standards aren't enforced what value are they?
I have just completed the four dives for a PADI "referral" student who arrived with all class and confined water work signed off. I established that she had completed the knowledge reviews and exam verbally without ever writing anything down, and had only peremptorily or not at all performed the confined water skills. The "referral" course ended up being almost a full course.
Perhaps Walter has in mind that some agencies monitor their instructors more effectively than others, to ensure that agency standards are complied with? Because the fact is that actual teaching standards vary enormously within at least some agencies.
While I would like to agree with Walter's oft stated view that the agency is far more important than the instructor, I'm afraid my experience is contrary to that. I was away from my dive center for a while some time ago and was relying on a particular instructor who had worked with me on and off for a few years. After I got back I discovered that he had certified someone as a PADI rescue diver after 2 days work and as divemaster during the remainder of his one week holiday. I fired him and told the agency of my misgivings - so far as I know they did nothing about what can only be regarded as bogus qualifications.
I also know that it is customary at some, maybe many, PADI diveshops for the CESA (controlled emergency swimming ascent) in open water to be performed without an upline. I was recently asked to teach an OW course for another dive shop, and when I asked about an upline I was told that they didn't have one and had never used one. This is stated by PADI as a serious breach of standards, but if those standards aren't enforced what value are they?
I have just completed the four dives for a PADI "referral" student who arrived with all class and confined water work signed off. I established that she had completed the knowledge reviews and exam verbally without ever writing anything down, and had only peremptorily or not at all performed the confined water skills. The "referral" course ended up being almost a full course.
Perhaps Walter has in mind that some agencies monitor their instructors more effectively than others, to ensure that agency standards are complied with? Because the fact is that actual teaching standards vary enormously within at least some agencies.
psychocabbage
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I would point out that PADI limits their instructors to the curriculum and NAUI does not.. At least from what I have read..
Limits would not be the correct word. PADI instructors can add to the information given a student, but the student cannot have their certification with held by not being able to demonstrate mastery of any added skills. In example, I include basic rescue skills in my confined water exercises. However, if the student does not show mastery on the rescue portion, which has not happened, but demonstrates mastery with the required skills, I must certify the student. NAUI allows instructors, to my understanding, to with hold certs if the student does not demonstrate mastery in the skills above standards. Since I am certified to teach and certify Rescue divers, and as long as I follow the standards for that course while instructing the students in Open Water, I have a defensible postion if challenged. I cannot however, teach decompression diving as I am not qualified to teach that.
mig_diver
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I do not respect or agree with anyone that feels the need to put someone else down in order to make themselves look or feel better.
When I was looking at taking the first step into the professional diving world I had the choice of going with my local PADI dive store or my local SSI dive store. I spoke to both looking for the differences in the two systems and ended up getting my PADI DM cert. Main reason for my decision is that the SSI store owner felt the need to constantly put the PADI system down. It was a real shame actually because I am sure that this one particular SSI store owner does not represent the entire SSI community which I have learnt is quite good.
When I was looking at taking the first step into the professional diving world I had the choice of going with my local PADI dive store or my local SSI dive store. I spoke to both looking for the differences in the two systems and ended up getting my PADI DM cert. Main reason for my decision is that the SSI store owner felt the need to constantly put the PADI system down. It was a real shame actually because I am sure that this one particular SSI store owner does not represent the entire SSI community which I have learnt is quite good.
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