Did your OW course prepare you to dive?

[Belzelbub]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, you are asking seriously. Sorry for the obnoxiousness but my open water course was so full of violations (skipped skills, everyone breathing normally during a CESA as we had no instruction in open water, it was skipped in a 4 hour pool session, etc.).

For a minute there, I thought we might have had the same instructor. Only in my case it was reversed. No pool sessions at all. The shop did not have a pool. Ironically, the shop still exists with new owners and uses the city's Olympic sized pool at the end of my street. The plan was 4 dives over 2 weekends. First weekend was a shore dive in poor vis. Max depth was 8-10'. The dives were done on the knees, and there was absolutely no swimming around.
The second weekend was to be in a river (Rainbow River) which is used for dives, so that one at least made sense. Max depth would have been around 25ffw. I had a scheduling conflict and couldn't do this one, but was never rescheduled, and got my cert anyway.

Not to derail the thread, but you just came up with a breakthrough idea for the next step in AI computers, or maybe the lady did?
A computer that reads the O2 content of the incoming gas and automatically adjusts the algorithm to assume the mix, and also warns of CO2 and CO.
Genius!

Yeah, that actually does now exist. Ratio's new computer has this, and I believe the Apeks DSX also comes with an analyzer. While I see a benefit in some cases, I don't see this as a huge draw. The analyzers in question are intended to be used at the surface.

 

[Insideout]

I felt like a new driver, scared and excited.
I felt prepared to dive within my limits, which were pretty narrow once I finished open water.

I also felt like “this is it?!” and that I was missing so much knowledge and basic experience.

The open water courses have been stripped so far to the bare bones that they prevent you from immediately dying and that’s about it.

People joke about “put another dollar in” or some of the seemingly ridiculous courses that are offered by different agencies, but I see a lot of value in it, and am disappointed that the topics weren’t covered in greater detail early on.

Peak Performance Beyoncé. I would rather have had more drills and more practice on the basic course.

Equipment Manager. Again, more hands on experience cleaning storing and maintaining the rental gear would have been nice. Changing out an o ring. Knowing what I should do, could do, and better leave to a professional would have been fantastic.

DSM Guru. It’s inexcusable that this is a “specialty”. We should have launched at least 5 of these by the time my open water course was done.

It really feels like the Advanced Open Water is where you should be after the basic open water course.

But time is money and the certification agencies want to cater to the masses wishing to get certified on a weekend.

 

[formernuke]

But time is money and the certification agencies want to cater to the masses wishing to get certified on a weekend.

And if the shops charged enough to do it, no one would sign up because they don't know that it is worth it long term

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

But time is money and the certification agencies want to cater to the masses wishing to get certified on a weekend.

And if the shops charged enough to do it, no one would sign up because they don't know that it is worth it long term

I'm not too keen on the resort style diving, as I like to give time for skills to sink in and have two (or more if necessary) confined water sessions.

That said, I think if agencies reformmated their open water programs to smaller steps:
1) After swim/float tests, go into snorkeling/skin diving/free diving/whatever you want to call it skills. Get students used to these things calls fins on their feet. Get them starting to learn how to equalize and being submerged underwater. Sure, many people have experience doing this already, but not everyone.
2) Start the first confined water session neutrally buoyant and trimmed. No exceptions. There will always be those students who cannot, and there is nothing wrong with that. But they need a private/longer course. With a focus on proper weighting and proper weight distribution, the folks at DAN will be far happier (I'm referencing their top ten list from their 2016 report).

People bring up the issue of time. I know @boulderjohn will back me on this, as he is one of the early pioneers teaching this way (the first to publish with others on these steps back in 2011), and while this may be counter intuitive, but it takes less time to teach the skills. There is some initial overhead getting squared away, but this time is earned back (and more) from the increased stability studnet acquire in the water column.

If you are in a class of 8 and you are on your knees, for about 7/8's of the time, you are just wasting time, blowing bubbles on your knees waiting your turn. But if you are neutrally buoyant and trimmed (with proper weighting) you are learning how to control your buoyancy with your lungs (if you are weighted properly).

Even with the time constraints of a resort style dive course in a weekend, much better results are achievable.

People just have to care.

The problem is, people just don't care and are stuck in their paradigms.

 

[rx7diver]

I'm not too keen on the resort style diving, as I like to give time for skills to sink in and have two (or more if necessary) confined water sessions.

That said, I think if agencies reformmated their open water programs to smaller steps:
1) After swim/float tests, go into snorkeling/skin diving/free diving/whatever you want to call it skills. Get students used to these things calls fins on their feet. Get them starting to learn how to equalize and being submerged underwater. Sure, many people have experience doing this already, but not everyone.
2) Start the first confined water session neutrally buoyant and trimmed. No exceptions. There will always be those students who cannot, and there is nothing wrong with that. But they need a private/longer course. With a focus on proper weighting and proper weight distribution, the folks at DAN will be far happier (I'm referencing their top ten list from their 2016 report).

People bring up the issue of time. I know @boulderjohn will back me on this, as he is one of the early pioneers teaching this way (the first to publish with others on these steps back in 2011), and while this may be counter intuitive, but it takes less time to teach the skills. There is some initial overhead getting squared away, but this time is earned back (and more) from the increased stability studnet acquire in the water column.

If you are in a class of 8 and you are on your knees, for about 7/8's of the time, you are just wasting time, blowing bubbles on your knees waiting your turn. But if you are neutrally buoyant and trimmed (with proper weighting) you are learning how to control your buoyancy with your lungs (if you are weighted properly).

Even with the time constraints of a resort style dive course in a weekend, much better results are achievable.

People just have to care.

The problem is, people just don't care and are stuck in their paradigms.

@wetb4igetinthewater,

A lot of critical scuba skills can be taught and learned between your steps #1 and #2, by first introducing scuba without a BC--you know, scuba using only mask, fins, snorkel, and weightbelt (i.e., skindiving gear), and scuba mounted on a plastic backpack with simple webbing harness.

In the open water class I took (in 1986), we spent a couple of weeks in this basic scuba configuration before being introduced to our BC's.

My daughter's open water course took place this past semester. Her course was taught similar to mine.

rx7diver

 

[boulderjohn]

The open water courses have been stripped so far to the bare bones that they prevent you from immediately dying and that’s about it.

I assume that by "stripped" you mean that formerly required skills have been removed. It would be interesting to see you list requirements that have been taken out in, say, the last 40 years, and tell why they are needed today. That would be very much in keeping with the main idea of this thread.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@wetb4igetinthewater,

A lot of critical scuba skills can be taught and learned between your steps #1 and #2, by first introducing scuba without a BC--you know, scuba using only mask, fins, snorkel, and weightbelt (i.e., skindiving gear), and scuba mounted on a plastic backpack with simple webbing harness.

In the open water class I took (in 1986), we spent a couple of weeks in this basic scuba configuration before being introduced to our BC's.

My daughter's open water course took place this past semester. Her course was taught similar to mine.

rx7diver

The market doesn't want weeks long courses. Add objective standards to performance requirements, and 4 open water dives is sufficient to create competent divers. Add being neutrally buoyant and trimmed, and you don't need weeks.

The market will not accept "a couple weeks" of instructions. What you daughter took at a university is not going to fly in general.

EDIT: I've been wine tasting this afternoon (got rides both ways), so my coherency has suffered as seen here.

 

[rx7diver]

The market doesn't want weeks long courses. Add objective standards to performance requirements, and 4 open water dives is sufficient to create competent divers. Add being neutrally buoyant and trimmed, and you don't need weeks.

The market will not accept "a couple weeks" of instructions. What you daughter took at a university is not going to fly in general.

Well, I'm just very happy that she had this option. Fifteen weeks of instruction (a 3 student credit hour, semester-long course designed originally as a PE course following a YMCA/NAUI curriculum) can provide very thorough training, indeed.

I wish everyone had this option--so that they can choose.

Her mom and I took a similar course (at different times) about 35 years ago. When my daughter and I did our first dive together (last week at a nearby, shallow, very limited visibility quarry), it was such a comfort to "know" what to expect from her.

rx7diver

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

And if the shops charged enough to do it, no one would sign up because they don't know that it is worth it long term

^^^and that is it in a nutshell.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

^^^and that is it in a nutshell.

There are shops that charge more. They are after a different category of customers. A smaller number of customers but enough for two shops to cater to.