Dema show???

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Its funny to me. I've run booths at high tech shows in the past. We often had no idea if the person who was looking at our booth demo units was an influential insider or a Joe Nobody. We couldn't value the cost of one random person window shopping. We didn't pass out the freebies to everyone who stopped by. People who introduced themselves and were more worthwhile to talk to, got more face time with the people manning the booth. Making your own priorities works.

I've been active in both the dive biz and the bicycle industry, specifically high power bike lights.

The "Big Show" for cycling is Interbike (or at least is was)

Interbike has been held in a few locations, but most often in either Anaheim (think Disneyland) or in Las Vegas.

It's supposed to be a Trade Show, but often many many "friends of the shop" would gain entrance, particularly when the show was held in SoCal (Anaheim)

I'd estimate 50% of the people attending were consumers and not shop owners or real shop employees at the Anaheim Shows.

That makes it virtually impossible to conduct business. The conversation I need to have with a shop owner is not the same conversation I want to have with a consumer.

I can't discuss wholesale pricing, margins and which model sells better and why when I don't know how many of the people there are dealers and how many are consumers.

At a trade show I'm paying for the opportunity to speak with dealers. Every consumer who wanted me to explain the basics of bike lighting to them was keeping me from speaking with a potential dealer.

The Shows in Vegas were much better. Mid week in Las Vegas most of the people at the show were really in the business, the drive from SoCal to Vegas was enough to discourage many of the curious public.

It got to the point where I didn't bother with trade shows in So Cal. We still did consumer shows, and of course at a consumer show I'm paying for the opportunity to speak with consumers. I'm more than happy to do so. It should be pretty damn obvious that I don't hide from my customers, given my accessibility and participation here.

Any show is paid for primarily by the exhibitors, not the attendees. It's not a Broadway Play or Professional Sporting Event.

The folks paying for the show should have the opportunity to get value for their dollar.


Tobin
 
I've been active in both the dive biz and the bicycle industry, specifically high power bike lights.

The "Big Show" for cycling is Interbike (or at least is was)

Interbike has been held in a few locations, but most often in either Anaheim (think Disneyland) or in Las Vegas.

It's supposed to be a Trade Show, but often many many "friends of the shop" would gain entrance, particularly when the show was held in SoCal (Anaheim)

I'd estimate 50% of the people attending were consumers and not shop owners or real shop employees at the Anaheim Shows.

That makes it virtually impossible to conduct business. The conversation I need to have with a shop owner is not the same conversation I want to have with a consumer.

I can't discuss wholesale pricing, margins and which model sells better and why when I don't know how many of the people there are dealers and how many are consumers.

At a trade show I'm paying for the opportunity to speak with dealers. Every consumer who wanted me to explain the basics of bike lighting to them was keeping me from speaking with a potential dealer.

The Shows in Vegas were much better. Mid week in Las Vegas most of the people at the show were really in the business, the drive from SoCal to Vegas was enough to discourage many of the curious public.

It got to the point where I didn't bother with trade shows in So Cal. We still did consumer shows, and of course at a consumer show I'm paying for the opportunity to speak with consumers. I'm more than happy to do so. It should be pretty damn obvious that I don't hide from my customers, given my accessibility and participation here.

Any show is paid for primarily by the exhibitors, not the attendees. It's not a Broadway Play or Professional Sporting Event.

The folks paying for the show should have the opportunity to get value for their dollar.


Tobin

Ultimately, the economic viability of the current dive industry models doesn't affect my diving much. If a channel collusion show is great (and it being the "big show" for the sport as well), it will continue. More power to them.

I never had a problem running a trade booth in sorting out the people who were good contacts versus those who aren't. Indeed, sometimes it was the unimportant people milling around the demo units who drew in the influential people.

I simply don't buy the argument that a channel-only show is so critical. However, since there isn't a way to measure that with a ruler, all we have to go buy are people who claim they fail to make worthwhile connections in a mixed show and other people who apparently can. Sounds like you need better booth people.
 
Is there a volume problem with DEMA?
It's more of an identity crisis at this point. They have to re-invent themselves or they will simply become extinct.

They are stuck in the old marketing schema. They are distressed by new marketing paradigms to the point of rejecting them outright. Rather than leading the industry into the informational age, they are being dragged into it kicking and screaming.

Look at these Alexa Scores:

Dema.org Traffic Details: 915,226
BeADiver.com Traffic Details: 2,804,399
ScubaBoard.com Traffic Details: 35,887
 
It's more of an identity crisis at this point. They have to re-invent themselves or they will simply become extinct.

They are stuck in the old marketing schema. They are distressed by new marketing paradigms to the point of rejecting them outright. Rather than leading the industry into the informational age, they are being dragged into it kicking and screaming.

Look at these Alexa Scores:

Dema.org Traffic Details: 915,226
BeADiver.com Traffic Details: 2,804,399
ScubaBoard.com Traffic Details: 35,887

Even though there are jerks like me on this board who pick people apart for the fun of it, I have to admit that the manufacturer subforums on this site are probably a better value (free) than a trade booth for some people. They can advertise, show off new products, and even do customer service.

Even the travel forums have ways of leading people to places. Christie's helpful posting on the Cozumel forum for instance probably leads to references that turn into patrons.
 
I simply don't buy the argument that a channel-only show is so critical. However, since there isn't a way to measure that with a ruler, all we have to go buy are people who claim they fail to make worthwhile connections in a mixed show and other people who apparently can. Sounds like you need better booth people.


DEMA's in a flat spin that may have no means of recovery, but....

Reversing the declining trend of DEMA won't be accomplished by morphing it into a consumer show. Doing so will certainly make it less attractive for many exhibitors, and it will also make it less attractive for many dive shops (attendees) too.

Ask most dealers and they will tell you they don't want a mixed show, and will choose not to support or attend such a show.

Without attendees there's no reason to exhibit and without exhibitors there's no reason to attend.

Tobin
 
Hmm, interesting, very good points on both sides I think.

Personally, I am in the industry and I still think there is a very good argument for Dema to have a two day "Trade only" entrance and a "Two day consumer" entrance.

It is achievable to have a combination show, one only has to look at "Interboot" to see how well they have managed to combine the needs of trade and consumer to see it can work.

Today the only manufacturers not at Interboot, are those who couldnt buy exhibition space, last year I was there and there were 95000 odd trade visitors and 35000 odd consumers, booths are sold out 3 years in advance.

Would it not be prudent for the Dema board to perhaps chat to the board of Interboot (or others) and see what they have done / are doing, which they, in turn can impliment to improve the lot of everyone associated with Dema, from the manufacturer to the consumer to the Dema show itself as a profitable, viable, robust, mouthpiece of the industry.?

Don't you PERHAPS think its fear of the unknown holding Dema, Exhibitors, Attendees, Dive shops etc back from embracing a new consumer model. They know the old model is not working, but are afraid of the new one, so cling on in the hope things change.?

The question I would ask is how long can we cling to the abyss, things need to change now, we cant hang on forever.

Lets be honest,Dema has a reputation amongst the general population, rightly or wrongly, as been the biggest and the best, there are so many opportunities to kickstart this industry again by giving the consumer something exciting to look forward to, only the consumer can revive this industry, not the LDS or the manufacturer or the travel destination, or Dema alone, only the consumer holds the key, and I just think we are not capitalising on this opportunity.
 
It's more of an identity crisis at this point. They have to re-invent themselves or they will simply become extinct.

They are stuck in the old marketing schema. They are distressed by new marketing paradigms to the point of rejecting them outright. Rather than leading the industry into the informational age, they are being dragged into it kicking and screaming.

Look at these Alexa Scores:

Dema.org Traffic Details: 915,226
BeADiver.com Traffic Details: 2,804,399
ScubaBoard.com Traffic Details: 35,887

The big problem with the stats on website popularity here has a deeper meaning:

Dema.org is the trade organization's site. It should have LESS popularity and traffic than the beadiver.com site, which is the public site that has been marketed to the masses to promote diving, made by dema.org. The Dema.org site benefits the members of Dema, and has very little for the general public on there. Currently, the Dema.org site has an estimated 3,300 visitors monthly, and beadiver has an estimated 2,300 visitors monthly. The failure of the beadiver.com site to have any substantial traffic is a problem in and of itself. I don't think that this necessarily reflects anything to do with the demashow as a whole.

Look at these stats from the dema.org site:

Membership Activities
With over 1,600 member businesses, including over 600 retailers from around the US, DEMA serves a variety of operations and uses funds raised through DEMA Show to create marketing programs that help drive new customers into stores and help to retain currently certified divers.

The Be A Diver Pool Tour

Over 6,598,000 media broadcast impressions in 2008 valued at OVER $1,750,000 in exposure.
In 2008 the Tour had hundreds of participants at 28 venues throughout the United States.

If you want to illustrate failure... This is it. The non-public site, with less exposure is ranked higher than the public site that was exposed to over 6.5 million people last year?? Something isn't right...

Again, going back to other "buyer only" trade shows and trade organizations... Do people know who ASD/AMD is, and does the general public want to get into this show? Does the general public know that Magic is a HUGE show to the textile and clothing industry, or do people think Magic is something that you see a guy pull a rabbit from a hat? Try to get into Magic without being a real buyer, with a resale license. You can't.

I personally find it perplexing still that scuba divers feel some sense of entitlement to be able to attend THE ONLY industry only show, and that they resent the industry for even having one. Every other industry does it. Like so many have said; there's a huge difference between having wholesale information on the table vs retail information on the table. The questions a retail customer asks are different than the questions a wholesale customer asks.
 
Hmm, interesting, very good points on both sides I think.

Personally, I am in the industry and I still think there is a very good argument for Dema to have a two day "Trade only" entrance and a "Two day consumer" entrance.

thats what I was saying earlier. Even just a single day for consumer day. To let us see what the dive shops are seeing.

It's the fact that people complain that DEMA is slowing down less people going etc. I really don't see any other ideas floating around that could fix the problem. I do think let consumers in for a day could be a solution. If they don't try every possible solution they are not really trying to fix the problem.
 
Hmm, interesting, very good points on both sides I think.

Personally, I am in the industry and I still think there is a very good argument for Dema to have a two day "Trade only" entrance and a "Two day consumer" entrance.

It is achievable to have a combination show, one only has to look at "Interboot" to see how well they have managed to combine the needs of trade and consumer to see it can work.

Today the only manufacturers not at Interboot, are those who couldnt buy exhibition space, last year I was there and there were 95000 odd trade visitors and 35000 odd consumers, booths are sold out 3 years in advance.

The stats are impressive, but.... Interboot is *9days* long

The "boot" show maybe an example of a mixed show, but it's hardly comparable to DEMA. Interboot is a "boat" show i.e. kayaks to Mega Yachts, diving is a relatively small part of the overall show.

As a manufacturer I would actually prefer a single annual show, attending shows is hugely expensive and for smaller operations time away from the shop is also a burden.

DEMA is a trade organization that in theory acts to promote the member's businesses. Not only are they largely failing they have apparently acted unfairly and unethically with the memberships money.

Many shows are nakedly for profit operations in that a Show Promoter hires a Hall, sells space, and markets like crazy to attract both exhibitors and attendees.

If there's truly a market for a Dive Industry show, mixed or not, that can turn a profit, we will no doubt see one. The demise of DEMA as the default Dive Industry Show will only clear the playing field.


Tobin
 
DEMA is where these people can get together and "the shops" can pick which places to organize travel to by whichever booth offers to pay their bar tab in addition to their comp'd room.

I can absolutely promise you, without a shadow of a doubt, that "the shops" don't choose their next travel location by "whichever booth offer to pay their bar tab in addition to their comp'd room". Like selling dive equipment, renting dive gear, servicing equipment, and any other service offered by a dive shop, travel is a product offered by a full service dive store. It is not a paid vacation for the shop owner and the employees. When an employee leads a trip to a travel destination, they are at work and they are on the payroll. Like all work, it is work. My employees would actually prefer NOT to lead the trip. After all, they have already worked a lot of long weeks. Running a dive trip is hard work, as is planning the trip and everything else associated with making it a fun experience for the customers.

For a dive shop, travel is a gigantic export of revenue, dollars that are limited in most family budgets. If you plan enough foreign trips, you customers will have NOTHING left to spend in your store! Disposable income is limited for most people. To make it worse, dive shop commissions for those exported dollars are extremely small....are smaller than the margin on any other product or service they sell. On a dive trip for 16 customers, that might represent $30,000 to $45000, a dive shop is lucky to make a commission of $3000 to $4500. This is a GROSS commission. There are real costs that must be paid from that commission. They still must purchase an airplane ticket for the trip leader, must bear the cost of promoting the trip, and must pay the employee for the time there, and must bear the risk of forfeited deposits should something go wrong. Take my word for it....this is NOT a gigantic windfall for the average shop. Worst of all, this extremely low margin sale nearly depletes the average customers entire available disposable income that can be dedicated to scuba purchases, resulting in less money they can spend on the more profitable goods and services in the shop.

Now, I am not saying that shops should stop travel to foreign destinations. I think we should actually do MORE travel. I am simply saying that the industry should not tolerate the poor distribution of those dollars. Shops should make FAR MORE profit from travel than is currently possible.

DEMA is where your LDS picks out which 3 brands of fin they think you should have the choice of wearing.

The distribution system for scuba equipment is broken. The average local dive store has less than $250,000 total annual revenue. Equipment is purchased directly from the manufacturer. The decision to carry a single brand often comes with a buy-in in excess of $50,0000. And, sales requirements to maintain the brand are often quite high. With a total sales volume of $250,000, it is impossible for most stores to carry more than one or two brands.

In addition, the major manufacturers run a "franchise" system without actually complying with the actual franchise laws in place in most states. They make "secret" promises not to give the line to any other store within a given number of miles. In a city with 3 dive stores, it is very unlikely that more than one of them will have the same big brand. This is not a business where the dive shop "chooses the three brands of fins they think you should have". They can't have every brand because of the broken distribution system that is in place. They make choices on the one or two, or three brands they will carry based on what is actually available to them and based on what makes sound business sense. Remember, for a dive retailer, the dive shop is actually their living, and they must do it in a way that makes sound business sense.

Let's focus on this thread. DEMA is actually simply a group major manufacturers, operating in the aggregate to promote their own interests. Look at the people who serve on the board of directors. They represent the biggest of the biggest in both equipment, training, and travel. They collectively bear some responsibility for things like the absurd distribution system of equipment and the poor commission paid to dive stores in return for exporting large numbers of customers and large numbers of dollars to locations that probably wouldn't survive WITHOUT the dive stores. This thread is about the DEMA organization and the people who support it. The DEMA show and all of our opinions about how it should be operated are simply the "straw man" in the discussion. Trust me, the problem isn't the show. The problem is the organization.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com
 

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