Dema show???

[The Chairman]

.hmmm I want more bang for my buck. I want a trade show where the majority of my customer base (the LDS) WANTS to attend, I want a venue that seeks to maximize the value for the exhibitors and members. I want there to be consumer days.

Welcome to www.ScubaBoard.com: the world's largest website devoted to diving! We have the divers YOU are looking for! Put the 800 pound Internet Gorilla to work for you today! Please check out our Scuba Manufacturer's Forums, where we provide space FREE of charge to any and all manufacturers who wish to have a permanent presence here. No strings, save that you must provide us with one person willing to answer the questions and concerns. [/Shameless Plug]

Oh Snap... YOU'RE the reason we have them here in the first place!

 

[cerich]

I just looked at the PowerPoint DEMA posted from their presentation at Beneath the Sea. They discuss advertising (using data from the 80's) don't mention ANY other venue than "use be a diver" and while acknowledging that consumers are doing more research than ever before while looking for value can't bring themselves to mention exactly how...the Internet.

They just don't get it.

 

[ScottZeagle]

Apparently, they just don't understand the significance of social media networking on the internet.

Shhhhh....

That does NOT work at all.

I would highly suggest that other manufacturers NOT try this.

I repeat, this does NOT work and do NOT do it.

You're welcome!!

Scott

:cool2:

 

[widget]

I want a trade show where the majority of my customer base (the LDS) WANTS to attend, I want a venue that seeks to maximize the value for the exhibitors and members. I want there to be consumer days.

Yes, certainly, I do think you echo the "thoughts" of many, even the majors who I deal with have expressed their interest in consumer days, I as a big international buyer of scuba equipment, branded and otherwise would have no issue with this arrangement, it works at other shows and industries so I would be surprised if it didnt work here.

The world has moved on from the old days where the manufacturer only speaks to distributor, distributor only speaks to wholesaler, wholesaler only speaks to retailer, retailer to consumer etc, - these days EVERYBODY wants to speak to the consumer, which is natural, he / she holds the purse which keeps them in business.

 

[ScottZeagle]

Consumers who want info on "what's new at DEMA" simply have to log on and they can see it all, without spending a dime.

Maybe it is "cool" to go to DEMA as a consumer...I don't really know. To me, it feels an awful lot like WORK.

There are Consumer Shows all over the US, and most companies that have decided NOT to do DEMA are still doing these shows, as far as I know.

I'm not sure how the dive shop owners who go to DEMA would feel about their customers coming into the show - not so much from the access to seeing new BCs, Regs, etc....but from being able to book their own travel deals, etc.

Seems like a lot of details to work out...but that's just me.

 

[cerich]

Consumers who want info on "what's new at DEMA" simply have to log on and they can see it all, without spending a dime.

Maybe it is "cool" to go to DEMA as a consumer...I don't really know. To me, it feels an awful lot like WORK.

There are Consumer Shows all over the US, and most companies that have decided NOT to do DEMA are still doing these shows, as far as I know. Hmmm.... maybe DEMA should get that message. regional shows, one day TRADE ONLY then a consumer show, maximise reach and minimize expense for everybody.

I'm not sure how the dive shop owners who go to DEMA would feel about their customers coming into the show - not so much from the access to seeing new BCs, Regs, etc....but from being able to book their own travel deals, etc. How do you feel when you see your customers (dealers) at the booth of some of the asian (and others) OEM companies you and I do business with? It's already happening.

Seems like a lot of details to work out...but that's just me. The details are the easy stuff, admitting the basic flaws seems to be the hard stuff.

My comments in RED above

 

[widget]

There are Consumer Shows all over the US, and most companies that have decided NOT to do DEMA are still doing these shows, as far as I know.

I'm not sure how the dive shop owners who go to DEMA would feel about their customers coming into the show - not so much from the access to seeing new BCs, Regs, etc....but from being able to book their own travel deals, etc.

Interesting,............ dont you think the point that the companies NOT doing Dema have continued with the consumer shows, is indicative that they WANT to be closer to the consumer and are doing their best to do so?

I understand your point re travel bookings, but (theres always a "but" ) I think there is growing trend for consumers to make their own arrangements anyway, I think those who prefer to travel with a club or shop or school will continue to do so, but from my experience theres a very big section of the market who want the freedom to vacation as they like and they will just book and go on their own anyway.

Of course, there will be trade offs, I guess thats inevitable, but on the whole I think the industry will benefit in the short term (which, right now, is the most important term there is ) by increased travel and equipment interest.
I believe a diver going somewhere differant for a week is more likely to buy some new gear, even if its just a mask, than one who is diving at home.

......but I hear you, I am just tossing around some ideas, I believe the Scuba industry is really struggeling now and anything that can help get us all through this is worth looking at and considering.

Tough times demand tough choices, it apprears clear the present system is not really working for all, so.........................why not consider an alternative.?

 

[PhilEllis]

Sure people are paid to do the work. But a quick look at the website lets you know there are only 8 people working there. A few years back there were 14, and there was no where near the marketing effort for the industry being made back then...see the Be A Diver campaign for more.

For someone who is not an employee (or board member) of DEMA, you certainly have lots of detail about the organization....in fact, a level of detail that you cannot get without being an employee, board member, or DEMA member. I am active in the industry, have attended almost all of the shows in the past 10 years, and pride myself at "knowing what's going on" in our industry. I could not and would not have known that there were 14 employees a few years ago and now only 8. I applaud your intense knowledge of this obscure organization..... for someone who is just simply "tired" of seeing organizations being picked upon.

I disagree with you about non-profit being "just a tax designation." The trade-off for receiving non-profit status is the legal obligation to put funds back into the industry in which the non-profit functions. The IRS does scrutinize that...and you can bet the members do too. As to the "considerable revenue," let's do a little computation shall we? Let's call it 1,500 exhibit spaces sold at DEMA Show...the cost of a booth is about $1,800 (which, by the way is below average for the convention industry). That adds up to $2.7 million per year. They have member dues revenues, but I'd bet those were 10% or less of their total revenue - 10% is pretty average for associations. Compare that to a diving manufacturer that generates between $25 and $50 million per year in revenue in the US alone - go look at a Johnson Outdoors Annual Report and see Scubapro's...they do closer to $90 million worldwide each year. Hardly seems fair to blame the ills of the industry on such a small entity as DEMA, does it? And you ask what they do with the money? Look at the DEMA home page, and scan down to the links to the Be A Diver program. I haven't seen any marketing program better in any recreational industry, and I am pretty well versed in those types of marketing efforts. Take a look at the "Promotion Guide." That lists all the goodies available to DEMA members. And the marketing plan is more extensive than anything I ever saw from any of the training agencies - or from past DEMA staff, for that matter.

Again, your knowledge of DEMA is impressive.

Look I am the last one to say that DEMA is perfect. I just think the industry has a totally wrong impression of what DEMA does. I also think many are unfair to DEMA, just because they don't happen to agree with the direction they take on some issues. The next time you are able to resolve a problem between a manufacturer, a training agency, some big magazine, a retailer and a dive destination, and everyone is happy, you just let the world know, ok?

Maybe if the association that represents the industry is unfairly treated because the INDUSTRY THEY REPRESENT has the wrong impression of what they do....well, maybe the organization needs to do a better job of letting people understand what they do. Unfortunately, to many, the DEMA organization has BECOME the DEMA show. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe the people in the industry want something different. Maybe we just have a serious misunderstanding.....between the industry and the organization that represents them.

Be a Diver...be a diver....be a diver

To be honest, I think I will echo what NetDoc has said here. In the over one year that this program has been running, I have yet to see a commercial. Further, in this extremely depressed economy, when most dive retailers can't even scrape up the money to pay rent each month, sending out a suggestion that "if you can get $25,000 together, we will kick in and help defray the cost of running the commercial" is only slightly short of an insult. Now, I expect that a very few of the largest dealers have taken advantage of this deal, but the majority of the professional retailers can't afford this program. You see, the organization that REPRESENTS the dive industry doesn't seem to even understand the situation as it exists on the street for the retailers!

I know Pete (NetDoc) very well. While he does make a living with ScubaBoard, he is also quite generous with his resources. I can't IMAGINE why DEMA has refused opportunities to promote diving through this website. I can guarantee you that whatever cost might be involved, this website reaches FAR more potential customers than other forms of advertising.

Hey CHayes, if you are involved in the industry, either as a DEMA employee, dive center owner, dive wholesale distributor, or manufacturer....tell us who you are. Your input is valuable. It is in EVERYONE'S best interest that we understand why this thread, and this subject, offers such a wide expanse of opinions. Maybe getting on the same page would help us all.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[The Chairman]

I know Pete (NetDoc) very well. While he does make a living with ScubaBoard, he is also quite generous with his resources. I can't IMAGINE why DEMA has refused opportunities to promote diving through this website. I can guarantee you that whatever cost might be involved, this website reaches FAR more potential customers than other forms of advertising.

Thanks for your kind words Phil! However, I have never asked for money from DEMA to help them out. In fact, I have gone out of my way to be sure that they knew I would be glad to help them and their membership for free.

That being said, I have suggested that ScubaBoard and DEMA trade services as I know that many of the other internet media corps do (Floor Space for Banners) and I even just gave away the banners here year before last only to find that they were unhappy about my free publicity. I won't waste my time and resources in that manner again. But as for my personal services, I have offered that for free: gratis: without a hint of recompense.

 

[chayes]

For someone who is not an employee (or board member) of DEMA, you certainly have lots of detail about the organization....in fact, a level of detail that you cannot get without being an employee, board member, or DEMA member. I am active in the industry, have attended almost all of the shows in the past 10 years, and pride myself at "knowing what's going on" in our industry. I could not and would not have known that there were 14 employees a few years ago and now only 8. I applaud your intense knowledge of this obscure organization..... for someone who is just simply "tired" of seeing organizations being picked upon.



Again, your knowledge of DEMA is impressive.



Maybe if the association that represents the industry is unfairly treated because the INDUSTRY THEY REPRESENT has the wrong impression of what they do....well, maybe the organization needs to do a better job of letting people understand what they do. Unfortunately, to many, the DEMA organization has BECOME the DEMA show. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe the people in the industry want something different. Maybe we just have a serious misunderstanding.....between the industry and the organization that represents them.



To be honest, I think I will echo what NetDoc has said here. In the over one year that this program has been running, I have yet to see a commercial. Further, in this extremely depressed economy, when most dive retailers can't even scrape up the money to pay rent each month, sending out a suggestion that "if you can get $25,000 together, we will kick in and help defray the cost of running the commercial" is only slightly short of an insult. Now, I expect that a very few of the largest dealers have taken advantage of this deal, but the majority of the professional retailers can't afford this program. You see, the organization that REPRESENTS the dive industry doesn't seem to even understand the situation as it exists on the street for the retailers!

I know Pete (NetDoc) very well. While he does make a living with ScubaBoard, he is also quite generous with his resources. I can't IMAGINE why DEMA has refused opportunities to promote diving through this website. I can guarantee you that whatever cost might be involved, this website reaches FAR more potential customers than other forms of advertising.

Hey CHayes, if you are involved in the industry, either as a DEMA employee, dive center owner, dive wholesale distributor, or manufacturer....tell us who you are. Your input is valuable. It is in EVERYONE'S best interest that we understand why this thread, and this subject, offers such a wide expanse of opinions. Maybe getting on the same page would help us all.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

Honey, this really bothers you doesn't it? I may be new to scubaboard but that doesn't mean I can't read and it doesn't mean I haven't been around for a while. DEMA's website (which really needs a new look) contains all that information, or you can get it from active members who actually participate. Sorry to disappoint you.