Dema show???

[cerich]

his reply to you

From: Tom Ingram [mailto:tingram@dema.org]
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:31 PM
To: 'Pete "NetDoc" Murray'; stephena@tusa.com; charliebush@cramerdecker.com; al.hornsby@padi.com; dorr@dan.org; editor@sportdiver.com; neal@nealwatson.com; jim@oceanconcepts.com; driscinti@dema.org; marketing@sunsethouse.com; tim@caradonna.com; nrussell@dema.org
Subject: RE: Traffic issues...

Hi Pete:

Thanks for your message.

I appreciate the effort put forward to provide the Board and Staff with data on your website and on others in the industry. Again, I want to state very clearly to you (as I have in the past) that DEMA has no objection to Scuba Board conducting seminars on behalf of your own business while you are exhibiting at DEMA Show. I encourage you to reserve seminar space and time and use that opportunity to assist others in understanding your business and the benefits it provides. ThatÃÔ what exhibitor-sponsored seminars at DEMA Show are designed to do.

While I cannot agree with your comments that DEMA has been in an ÅÊnternet-phobic hole, I will agree that we have been very measured in our approach to using social media as marketing tools for the benefit of our members. ThereÃÔ lots that can be accomplished with this important means of reaching our business customers, and thereÃÔ more on the horizon, with some interesting modes of communication waxing and waning pretty quickly (I am sure I am not telling you something you donÃÕ already know). Along with the other internet-based tools, each of these has its use in helping DEMA get information about the association out there, and I can assure you they have not been ignored. As for the BeADiver campaign, again I cannot disagree that the internet should be (and of course, already is) an integral part of the effort.

I also wonÃÕ belabor the point I made in an earlier email regarding the need for DEMA to operate within the realm of a trade association, as well as to help promote recreational diving. Doing so on Scuba Board is not part of our marketing plan, but that doesnÃÕ mean we are not involved in helping our members use these important business tools to help them do better in a recessionary (or any other) environment. They are one of the tactics needed to implement successful promotional strategies, especially in this economic climate.

Again, let me encourage you to use DEMA show exhibitor-sponsored seminars as a means of reaching your potential audience and to teach them about the benefits of involvement with your business.

Thanks again for your message.

Tom Ingram
Executive Director
Diving Equipment and Marketing Association
3750 Convoy Street, Suite 310
San Diego, CA 92111

 

[cerich]

and Netdocs reply to the reply.

Tom,

Let me also state "very clearly" that it appears that you missed the intent of my offers. This is not about some info-mercial to leverage an affiliation with DEMA into sales for ScubaBoard. ItÃÔ not about them understanding MY business. This is precisely where you get the image of being anti-internet, or net-a-phobic. Not everyone on the Net is a shyster, trying to get your personal information because their rich uncle died in Nigeria. I don't want to sell ads to the average dive shop I am after far bigger fish. This would cover UNIVERSAL ways of marketing a local dive store on the internet, WITHOUT spending any money. It is not ScubaBoard specific. This is about giving your members the tools to succeed. Free tools at that. You are asking me to pay for the privilege of helping out YOUR members with no chance for an ROI for me. You don't ask Jason Heller to pay for offering classes on the internet. How is this any different, other than me offering to do them for free?

However, that was only ONE of the suggestions I gave you what about the others? Do you assume that ALL of my offers are somehow self-serving attempts to manipulate DEMA? You don't trust me Tom and yet I have done you no harm. I can assure you without equivocation, that I am NOT from Nigeria and all of my uncles died as near paupers. I simply want to help!

This appears to be a matter of leading a dehydrated horse to water and watching it not drink because free water is ÅÏot in its marketing plan? Maybe some FREE assistance should be in your marketing plan. Few are impressed with your present expensive methods and a number of others are looking for a change: either with DEMA or with some association willing to try something different. ItÃÔ very frustrating for all of us, and you know what? I give up. Let me know if you ever want my help but I will be careful to not bother you again. I obviously canÃÕ help you see what is plain to any number of us and it seems to agitate you. I am here if you want some assistance, and the water will still be free, but I am not going to continue to beat my head against the wall trying to get you to drink.

One final question. If DEMA is the subject of future discussions on ScubaBoard, should I inform you and the Board, or is my silence preferable?


Pete ůetDoc Murray
717 Executive Dr, Winter Park Fl, 32789

 

[PhilEllis]

One final question. If DEMA is the subject of future discussions on ScubaBoard, should I inform you and the Board, or is my silence preferable?


Pete «ëetDoc Murray
717 Executive Dr, Winter Park Fl, 32789

Pete, obviously your silence is preferable. Of course, they always have their sock puppets that can chime in if it gets too tough for them.

This series of emails, generously offered up in public by Chris, is most eye opening. I am one that was pretty sure exactly what we were dealing with in DEMA, but I will confess that even I have been surprised. Oh my God.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

 

[cerich]

Pete, obviously your silence is preferable. Of course, they always have their sock puppets that can chime in if it gets too tough for them.

This series of emails, generously offered up in public by Chris, is most eye opening. I am one that was pretty sure exactly what we were dealing with in DEMA, but I will confess that even I have been surprised. Oh my God.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

not as surprised as I was when the mail showed up. It came from somebody i haven't even said more to hi to in 9 years.......

I've read the email a few times now in disbelief, what do you need to do to get eyes open in this industry?

 

[The Chairman]

Yes, that is my most recent correspondence with Tom and the DEMA BOD. I was kind of surprised with his response, but not nearly as surprised to read it here!!! I guess someone on the BOD thought this should be shared.

 

[mike_s]

! I guess someone on the BOD thought this should be shared.

perhaps they don't agree with Tom's stance?

 

[cool_hardware52]

Being "defunded" is the only message that resonates universally.

Tobin

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I really hope that as a result of this Scubaboard decides to follow the lead of the majors and tell DEMA to kiss it's ass. Pete, you know from what I've seen that there are SB members out there who would love to rep SB at every regional, local, and international show. Hell some of us would do it for a meal and something to drink. If I were not the SEI rep committed to Scubafest in Columbus Ohio I'd be glad to take a spell at the table. I bet I could even get Tom to give me a few minutes to spell you so you could go the can. Would have to be quick though. 1 tug and a shake and back you are.

But seriously as a longtime supporting member (wish I was doing enough business to warrant an ad) I must say I'm not too happy about a portion of my support going to fund a booth at an organization that is so out of touch with the dive community. I'd rather it be used to fund attendance at smaller, more diver friendly venues. Now I'm not going to pull my support but I'm just saying that I don't see the benefit of attending DEMA this year with the attitude they have. I watched the threads and reports from DEMA for one thing- New Gear. But if no one is going to be there that's one thread I'll not worry about.

 

[PhilEllis]

I just spent another few minutes reading through the emails in the back and forth between NetDoc and Tom Ingram. This is my third reading of those emails.

It is clear that DEMA, and the membership, have a predetermined plan for promoting their members issues. It is further clear that their interest in internet marketing and advertising is limited to their own website and the websites of their "members". In fact, it seems that Mr. Ingram confirms that social marketing is too liquid for their current involvement.

I think this is quite a shame. It would seem that they would take advantage of EVERY method of marketing, certainly including those offered by NetDoc. I think I read a fear that NetDoc would be obtaining an "unfair" advantage should they involve themselves with ScubaBoard.

It is important to remember that it is likely that most of their powerful members continue to voice the opinion that ScubaBoard, and other chat boards of the same ilk, are simply a temporary obstacle to their chosen method of distribution and control of the sport....and that they will eventually go away. I expect they think that the era of instant information and social interaction on the internet is simply a period of terrible time, and like all terrible times, it will pass. When it does, they can return to the comfortable system of the 1980's and all will be well.

What a TERRIBLE misreading of the state of the nation and what a disservice they do, in these extremely tough economic times, to those in the industry that support, advance, and maintain the sport of diving.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

 

[cerich]

It is important to remember that it is likely that most of their powerful members continue to voice the opinion that ScubaBoard, and other chat boards of the same ilk, are simply a temporary obstacle to their chosen method of distribution and control of the sport....and that they will eventually go away.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

they have that backwards. In 2006 when Time magazine made everybody the "person of the Year" it should have become absolutely clear to anybody that the internet isn't going away. here we are three years down the road and virtually nothing has changed in the industry to deal with the new reality(except SSI went from posters at DEMA saying they would never go internet if I recall to having online courses)

The MOST amusing part is that it is obvious that some seem to feel the Internet is only about two things when it comes to the dive industry, lower prices and smear campaigns, but not UNDERSTANDING the media and refusing to learn they have managed to make that view a self fulfilling prophecy. This is a HUGE problem because other industries that rely upon discretionary spending for survival aren't being quite so ostrich like. We will lose big time to them.