Deep stop hand signal?

[tbone1004]

How do you make a deep stop hand signal?
For example, telling your dive buddy that you're going to a do a deep stop at certain depth for a certain duration.

sure this has been said, but I can't resist.

I flip them off and give them a turkey sign for being a muppet and doing deep stops.

If you have a planned decompression stop, then it's the normal deco hand signals. From start of ascent to say a 30ft stop. deco, ascend, 30, time, number of minutes. Once you hit 30, then level off, time, number of minutes. Repeat process for 20ft, then 10ft.

 

[tursiops]

For hand signals in general, and this would cover any signals for stops (see rjack321's post #4 for details) I would recommend the book "Hand Signals for Scuba Diving" by the NACD (National Association of Cave Diving). You can get it online and it covers a wide variety of signals for every category you can think of (basic communications, trouble signs, signs relating to buddy positioning, signs relating to the environment, etc.). Though written by the NACD these signs can easily be used for recreational diving. I use these signs in my own recreational diving and they have been easy to learn.

The advantage of using the NACD hand signals is they can be done with one hand, an advantage to those who carry equipment. Most, if not all , of the signals are intuitive. If you adopt these signs you will have to give up some cherished signs like the safety stop (a horizontal hand on top of a three fingered second hand) or the thumbs up (let's go shallower) sign.

Since the signs are from the NACD for use in overhead environments the thumbs up means "let's turn the dive" i.e., leave the overhead environment for open water. Since the safety stop is the raised pinky finger, in open water I've changed the thumbs up sign to mean I'm going directly to the surface right now bypassing any needed safety stop. It means I have a problem, not necessarily an emergency, that I cannot fix under water. Afetr the safety stop it means let's finish the dive and surface. The NACD sign for "go to a shallower depth" or get off the floor of the cave/cavern is a palms up hand with the hand going in an upward motion. This can be followed by signed numbers for the shallower depth.

I agree with some of this: the NACD list is quite useful, and doing signs with just one hand is quite useful. It was also last revised 15 years ago, so is not up-to-date with thigns like deep stops.
But there are gross errors in the rest of the post:
** Thumbs up does NOT mean "turn the dive," but rather "terminate the dive and head for the surface." It is a "demand signal" and must be acknowledged. "Turn the dive" is a single finger, pointed up, moved in a horizontal circle.
** The raised pinky means decompression, NOT a safety stop. It is usually either preceded by a question mark (crooked index finger) to mean "how much deco do you have?" or followed by a number, to mean how many minutes of deco you have.
** The palm-up gesture is primarily a buoyancy control gesture, meaning get off the bottom. It can also be used to indicate get shallower, but might best be combined with a finger pointing in the direction to go up, to emphasize it is more than just a buoyancy-control signal. It works well in a sentence of four hand signs together: go up, toward the surface, level off, 15 ft.

I know lots of folks have modified or invented signals for their own private buddy. it is like a secret language. The danger comes from using such a signal that also means something else in a standardized list.

 

[tbone1004]

@tursiops command signal, not demand signal, but yeah.

 

[tursiops]

@tursiops command signal, not demand signal, but yeah.

I call it command too, the NACD calls it demand. Oh well, if we had an alternative source we could ignore the NACD.

 

[tbone1004]

I call it command to, the NACD calls it demand. Oh well, if we had an alternative source we could ignore the NACD.

considering the NACD has been essentially defunct for 6 ish years, I'd say we can safely ignore the NACD...

 

[EFX]

I agree with some of this: the NACD list ..........But there are gross errors in the rest of the post:
** Thumbs up does NOT mean "turn the dive," but rather "terminate the dive and head for the surface." It is a "demand signal" and must be acknowledged. "Turn the dive" is a single finger, pointed up, moved in a horizontal circle.

[arrogance on] "Gross errors in the rest of the post"[arrogance off]. So you and your diving buddies have modified this sign from the NACD meaning. That's fine. I have the NACD hand signal book in front of me. It says, in regards to the single finger pointing up and moved in a horizontal circle:

"The original intent of this symbol was to indicate "just turning around", not "terminating the dive". There may be any number of reasons to turn around without necessarily ending the dive. Divers should avoid confusing "turn around" with "turn the dive". The NACD uses the thumbs up to indicate "turn the dive".

When I took my cavern course the instructor gave the meaning of the thumbs up sign inside the cavern as "we turn around and exit the cavern immediately by going into open water." He did not include immediately head for the surface as you indicate.

** The raised pinky means decompression, NOT a safety stop. It is usually either preceded by a question mark (crooked index finger) to mean "how much deco do you have?" or followed by a number, to mean how many minutes of deco you have.

The NACD manual reserves this sign for a deco stop. There is no mention anywhere in the book on how to convey a safety stop. You could use the open palm moving up and the depth to ascend to for the safety stop. However, I view the safety stop as a non-mandatory deco stop and have adopted the raised pinky to indicate this, in the same way as you have adopted the finger pointing up moved in a horizontal circle as "end the dive".

I know lots of folks have modified or invented signals for their own private buddy. it is like a secret language. The danger comes from using such a signal that also means something else in a standardized list.

Obviously, your "standard list" of signals differs from the NACD standard list of signals. But, your point is well taken. Buddy pairs need to go over and agree on the hand signals and their meaning for effective communications.

 

[tursiops]

I really don't want to make a big deal of this, but here we go anyway. Not much else to do these days...

It is always possible we are not quoting the same edition of the NACD hand signals for Scuba Diving. Mine is the 5th edition, copyright 2005.

So you and your diving buddies have modified this sign from the NACD meaning. That's fine. I have the NACD hand signal book in front of me. It says, in regards to the single finger pointing up and moved in a horizontal circle:

"The original intent of this symbol was to indicate "just turning around", not "terminating the dive". There may be any number of reasons to turn around without necessarily ending the dive. Divers should avoid confusing "turn around" with "turn the dive".

When I took my cavern course the instructor gave the meaning of the thumbs up sign inside the cavern as "we turn around and exit the cavern immediately by going into open water." He did not include immediately head for the surface as you indicate.

The quoted book says (in contrast to what your instructor said):

However, the safety stop is a non-mandatory deco stop.

No such thing. A deco stop is always mandatory.

Obviously, your "standard list" of signals differs from the NACD standard list of signals.

I do not have a standard list. I have been quoting the NACD book you said you were using.

 

[EFX]

My book is:

5th edition 2005.
Third revision February 2008.
2008 version & revisions written by Bill Lester.

My edition is probably newer. My text for the turn around signal is different and adds this important note:

"The original intent of this symbol was to indicate "just turning around", not "terminating the dive". There may be any number of reasons to turn around without necessarily ending the dive. I might want to inspect a piece of gear, retrieve equipment for a planned task, or simply "search"/"look at" a different area of a cave or wreck. Divers should avoid confusing "turn around" with "turn the dive".

 

[tursiops]

My book is:

5th edition 2005.
Third revision February 2008.
2008 version & revisions written by Bill Lester.

My edition is probably newer. My text for the turn around signal is different and adds this important note:

"The original intent of this symbol was to indicate "just turning around", not "terminating the dive". There may be any number of reasons to turn around without necessarily ending the dive. I might want to inspect a piece of gear, retrieve equipment for a planned task, or simply "search"/"look at" a different area of a cave or wreck. Divers should avoid confusing "turn around" with "turn the dive".

Yes, yours is 3 years newer.
I actually don't understand the added comment that you quote. I fully agree with the "original intent", that it means turn around, not terminate the dive. That is what the 2005 version says too. There is nothing there about terminating the dive. The signal is even called "turn-around." Terminate the dive was, is, and hopefully ever shall be the thumbs up signal.
I'm guess some instructors/divers were misusing the turn-around signal and Lester felt obliged to comment on it.

 

[Storker]

When I took my cavern course the instructor gave the meaning of the thumbs up sign inside the cavern as "we turn around and exit the cavern immediately by going into open water." He did not include immediately head for the surface as you indicate.

I've learned that in no-stop open water diving, the thumb means "this dive is over". There may be many reasons for terminating a dive, and many of them don't preclude a safety stop. So, if I or my buddy thumbs the dive, we'll ascend to safety stop depth where there will be a short discussion (diver 1: flat palm downwards, three upright fingers below. Alternativey, "level off" followed by "3". If the other diver gives the thumb again, it's surface time. If the other buddy confirms the suggestion for a safety stop, then safety stop it is).