Deep Sea Detectives - Andrea Doria episode

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But, I just don't think this was that difficult of a dive for these guys. I don't want to sound as if I think this is an easy a dive, but, really I wonder how many dives Chatterton has on this wreck that involve extensive penetration 20, 50, more? I never got the feeling these guys were on the edge at all. I know several people that have the doria, including my old instructor, and most of them say that if you have the right training, the boat ride is the most difficult part of the dive.


1280' - I don't even want to think about it.
 
MASS-Diver once bubbled...

1280' - I don't even want to think about it.

Oh, it's truly awesome. On a calm day, the wind is often 30 knots or more at the top. And you're the sail. :D The top of the tower will often sway back and forth 5' or more. Each way. I can't even begin to tell you what that feels like - especially if you're "freehand" and not clipped in for some reason (maybe you're working and have to be totally mobile).

My favorite climbs are the ones at night. About halfway up, it's just you and a pole. I mean, your whole world consists of this one, single vertical surface that stretches to infinity, away from you, in two directions - up and down. At that moment, there is nothing else on Earth... Just you and the pole. That's all that matters. That's all that exists. Everything you ever have been... Everything you are... Everything you ever will be... Is dependent on that pole. Your birth. Your death. Your best friend. Your lovers. Your kids, your wife, your Mom and Dad. Your sisters and brothers. Your dog, your boss, and your employees... They all depend on that pole... And that pole depends on you to hold on.

And no, you don't climb with a light at night... Your eyes do better after they've "adjusted" and you can climb normally. Climbing with a light never allows your eyes to adjust. If you have a light with you, then you're preoccupied doing something else - something other than what you should be doing, which is focusing on staying alive. Plus, a hard shadow cast by a light can be easily mistaken for a handhold... Not good. Climbing in the dark is much, much better.

You know where everyone falls? They never fall from the top... They never fall from 1280 feet... They always fall from within 50 feet of the ground. Why? Well... It's easy to get careless at the end. Know what I mean? You climb to 1280' and live... On your way down, at 100' or so, you feel like, "Sheesh... This is nothin'..." Guess what? It'll kill you too... Or worse yet, maim you and then let you live. No thanks.

You should see me climb up a ladder... Like to get on the roof to adjust an antenna or something... You wouldn't believe how seriously I take that... And you wouldn't believe how much I do not like climbing some dinky, nonpermanent assembly (ladder) with absolutely no safety gear at all. It goes against my better judgement. No, honey, you hang the Christmas lights this year. :D

Which one's more dangerous? 1280'? Maybe. Maybe a fall from the roof would only break your leg... But it's all about managing the risk. With the right gear and the right mindset and the right skills, 1280' is cake. And that "management" isn't possible on that aluminum ladder that says, "Do not stand above this rung." So I contest that I've got less risk at 1280' than an inexperienced climber does hanging his Christmas lights with no safety gear on. "Bad mojo?" You bet.

Let me ask you this... How serious do you think I take a 100' climb? Do you think I wear my safety gear? Do you think I clip in at every opportunity? Do you think I take any less precautions on that 100'-er than I do on the 1280'-er? No way. To me, it's the same damn thing every time. Muscle memory. No brainer. Same gear, every time. Same skills, every time. Same plan, every time. And every time it works out the same way... I find myself back on the ground, safely.

I can't imagine anyone ever looking at the 'Doria and saying, "That's an easy dive." Anyone intimately familiar with deep or penetration diving would never look at any dive and dismiss it as "not difficult." Whether they thought the 'Doria was easy or not, they never should have let their guard down... You hit the nail on the head when you said, "I never got the feeling these guys were on edge at all." You're right... That's exactly what I mean... "Bad mojo," my man. Their lax attitudes told me that they should not have been diving that day on the 'Doria. They weren't "on edge." Their senses were not heightened. They were not alert. They were not aware. They were not ready. They were climbing a 100' ladder with no experience (on this ladder) and little safety gear, and dismissing it because they had climbed a 300' ladder days before.

They'd not been "splattered" yet.

I wonder what they would say if you asked them if they'd dive the same way today... After their buddy's death.

"Bad mojo?" You bet. It was screamin' on that last dive. Like a banshee.

...And that was maybe the first link in "the chain" of events that I was talking about in my last post... You know... The "chain of events" that happen "in the wake" of death. Remember? I told you that the "chain of events...in the wake" doesn't start at death. People always think that. No way, man... It starts waaaay before death.

...And I throw that out for consideration. Perhaps it's a lax attitude which is the first link in the "chain of events that happen in the wake of death."

Yeah, man... Screamin'. Gives me the shakes. :eek:
 
pipedope once bubbled...
in crumbling wrecks are *very* low percentage dives.

I don't like second guessing without all of the information so I won't speculate on if it would have likely been a sucess or a disaster. I wasn't there.

Face it, she is falling apart and it is probably not safe to do penetrations any more. But that would be a determination that would have to be made by people with lots of expereince and based on good survey data made on site just before the dive. Last years data may not be good enough anymore.

The main impression I got from the show on History Channel was precisely that. This is a crumbling wreck now. Not safe at all to try to penetrate.

The "Winter Garden" appears to be like a cavern dive, from the show. The rest of the wreck, since it is on its side, and collapsing onto itself, seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

As an external survey dive, this wreck seems like it will continue to be popular for a long time. But like PipeDope said, anyone considering penetrating it is taking their life into their own hands, on a very low percentage dive.

I got to watch the show again on Saturday, while the wife was away running Christmas errands. Enjoyed it just as much the second time around as during the first. Great show. I would like to see History Channel film all the major wrecks along the U.S. coastlines.
 
SeaJay once bubbled...
(Sipping on a Mike's Lemonade)

The closest thing that I could offer in terms of "concrete answer" would be an overall observation of the facts: Statistics regarding deaths on the 'Doria, statistics regarding the use of an Inspiration rebreather (specifically, the failure rate of them in regards to the recent world record dive), /QUOTE]

I'm not sure I follow the relevance of the failure of Inspirations at depths way beyond what they are tested for, and definitely in the 'hands of the gods' range, when used in reference to a 60-70m wreck where they are very much tested.
I for one feel safer if penetrating anything whilst on a bubble free rebreather than I ever did on O/C
The number of deaths on the Doria has a lot more to do with it's comparative popularity and accessibility ( via being known and trips organised there) than anything else

rgds
F
 
Back when VCRs first came out, an elderly friend was trying to figure out how to use the timer. So he taped what he thought was a 'romance' movie about the Andrea Doria. When he watched it the next day and noted it was a 'dive' movie about a team from Italy that dove it, very early (50's). He asked if I wanted it! Its about these air divers that chartered a fishing vessel with only a flashing light type depth finder and a compass. They located it and dove wet, filmed it,with air and no gloves. They did have a single man chamber on board, which they had to use. Still, its very impressive to me. Anyone seen it?
 
Back when VCRs first came out, an elderly friend was trying to figure out how to use the timer. So he taped what he thought was a 'romance' movie about the Andrea Doria. When he watched it the next day and noted it was a 'dive' movie about a team from Italy that dove it, very early (50's). He asked if I wanted it! Its about these air divers that chartered a fishing vessel with only a flashing light type depth finder and a compass. They located it and dove wet, filmed it,with air and no gloves. They did have a single man chamber on board, which they had to use. Still, its very impressive to me. Anyone seen it?

No I havent seen it but would sure like to. I had a friend record Gimbles "Final Chapter" back in I believe 84 but havent seen much film on her before that. Again sure would be nice to see
 
I accessed this thread a little late. (like today 2/7). Unfortuantely, I caught the end of the DSD Andrea Doria episode.
I have had the pleasure of meeting some of the participants.
About 3 yrs ago, I worked at the Beneth The Sea show in NJ at the booth of an organizatin I volunteer for. We did an Andrea Doria exhibit. The artifacts were supplied by a friend of the then pres of the organization. He has an extensive collection of which only a small portion was on exhibit. To keep tabs on his collection he was at the booth for the weekend. Between him and his collection I got to meet many (as I call them) "dive gurus". Included in them was Richie Koler who used to dive extensively with this friend. Then about two years ago, at the begining of the dive season, I again met Richie on the Eagle's Nest. He was taking his girlfriend (fience?) out on what I thought was said was her first wreck dive. It surprised me to see her diving on the Andrea Doria a mere two years later. Of course I don't know how much training and diving she got in in that time. (and maybe I was mistaken that when I met her it was her first wreck dive).
Other than that, most of what they presented I have already learned from several local divers who have frequented the Doria.
While many NE wreck divers see the Doria as an ultimate goal, I got started too late, am too old to give it a try. I'll stay in the shallower depth.
 
Public Notice!

There is a phenomenally nice diver on this board who sent me a tape of the episode in question. Unfortunately, I accidentally deleted the PM's of this whole interaction, which is a real shame because I wanted to thank you and let you know that it arrived safely!

If this is you, please accept my apologies for not posting this sooner, and send me a PM!
 

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