Deep Diving

[AquaTec]

padiscubapro once bubbled...


welcome to the club.. are you going to do zero-g at Sunset house this summer??

I haven't decided yet, i was there last year the week before, diving with Reg.

I will concider it

 

[Braunbehrens]

Well, I'm definitely out of my league talking about penetration dives at 300 fsw. I just wouldn't do such a dive, there are way too many risks. Deco obligations build up fast, and a problem on that kind of dive carries a high risk of death.

The reason I wouldn't dive a rebreather is that it adds risk. I dive 3rds after taking away rock bottom, and I dive with a buddy, so if there is a problem we should have more than enough to get out.

Once you take away the risk of running out of gas, the risks of the rebreather really start to stand out.

Also, with a rebreather there are many ways to kill yourself that you probably won't see coming, especially on an electronic rebreather.

What scares me most about the inspiration is that there are so many unexplained deaths.

BTW, didn't a noble prize winner kill himself on one of these units? I just don't think I'm smarter than that guy...well maybe I am, I won't dive a rebreather ;-)

As I said, it's all about risk. If you are willing to take on the risk of a scrubber problem, the risk of an electronic malfunction (electronics in salt water!), and the risk of a penetration dive to 300 ft, well, to each his own. To me, it's simply not worth it. Others think we are crazy just because we dive. To each his own.

 

[padiscubapro]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
Well, I'm definitely out of my league talking about penetration dives at 300 fsw. I just wouldn't do such a dive, there are way too many risks. Deco obligations build up fast, and a problem on that kind of dive carries a high risk of death.

The reason I wouldn't dive a rebreather is that it adds risk. I dive 3rds after taking away rock bottom, and I dive with a buddy, so if there is a problem we should have more than enough to get out.

Once you take away the risk of running out of gas, the risks of the rebreather really start to stand out.

Also, with a rebreather there are many ways to kill yourself that you probably won't see coming, especially on an electronic rebreather.

What scares me most about the inspiration is that there are so many unexplained deaths.

BTW, didn't a noble prize winner kill himself on one of these units? I just don't think I'm smarter than that guy...well maybe I am, I won't dive a rebreather ;-)

As I said, it's all about risk. If you are willing to take on the risk of a scrubber problem, the risk of an electronic malfunction (electronics in salt water!), and the risk of a penetration dive to 300 ft, well, to each his own. To me, it's simply not worth it. Others think we are crazy just because we dive. To each his own.

in light of the dives that are being done on a CCR and the anmount of dives there aren't that many deaths.. considerably less tha OC scuba.. I definately wouldn't call it " so many unexplained".. There are a few deaths that are questionable but virtually evry death has either a major screwup or doing a dive beyond ones training.. Take for example a death on acertain ccr where the diver never turned on his electronics, same as OC scuba.. no gas you die.. or a diver fooling the calibration on a different usnit so he could use a setpoint higher than the unit was designed for.. There is usually a clear reason..

There haven't been any deaths attributed to unit failure yet.. there has been a death where the unit should not have been dove and warned as such but the diver ignored all warnings and still dove, and another who pushed his scrubber well beyond what its supposed to work at.. Thats darwin at work..

In the event of a failure other than just loosing the gas supply the rule of thirds is useless.. On oc entanglement or getting lost inside something are big risks, on OC a double death is the most likely result of two buddys who stick together til the end..

I have done both extensively, and someone with the proper training and experience has more options available to him/her in the event of an emergency..

Scrubber issues shouldn't even be a concern if you stay withing the limits.. If you push it you deserve what you get.. scrubbers don't just fail.. Proper equipment is a must and someone who doesn't trreat gear well shouldn't dive a CCR.. The electronics issue is total nonsense.. You don't need the electronics if you are properly trained.. A failure means nothing.. You should be able to fly the unit blindly or you shouldn't diving a CCR.

In the event of Hypercapnia, the symptoms are quite easy to spot.. A diver should be able to fix that.. Hypoxia also is easy to avoid if you pay attention.. once you know your body you know how often the unit should be injecting oxygen.. If you don't hear the solenoid check your guages, unless you are shallow, nothing happens quickly..

Like I pointed out in an earlier response at 300ft you can go over 6 minutes without adding any oxygen and still have a reasonable PO2.. If someone goes that long without checking at that depth they are a fool.. I would say the same to an OC diver.. if you are at 300 you better be watching your guages closely..

Unless you try a unit with a competent instructor and go through the training you really can't understand the real risks and benefits.. someone who is dead set against a reb will shovel everything possible against it and its doubtful you'll get a fair assessment. Most CCR rebreather divers are very experienced OC divers, and just the fact that most never go back to OC shows what people think of it.. The only way to accurate guage the risks is to try it.. I have had a few students who didn't like the idea about a rb but once they got some training (an intro class) and some pool time they were hooked.

Not everyone is suited to be a RB diver and I belive there are more than a few who shouldn't be diving a rebreather. It requires developing a new skill set a much more discipline..

 

[Braunbehrens]

You're obviously not going to change your mind, and I'm not going to change mine. What's more, these issues have been discussed at lenght elsewhere and I'm not all that interested in rehashing them.

I'm sure all those other 20 or so Inspiration divers also thought they had it figured out, until the lights went out.

I'm also sure it's easy to convince people to dive a rebreather, if the risks are made light of. Certainly, the concept has great appeal.

I agree that there are some dives that are "safer" on a rb than on OC. "Safer" being a very relative measure in this case.

(fixed a couple of typos)

 

[dugandiving]

I may be reading something into your comments that is not meant to be there, but gee you sound like you are being very snide. Padiscubapro gave specifics in answer to the concerns you raised, and you just brushed them aside without apparently taking any notice at all of his explanation. If you don't like rebreathers, by all means don't use them. Nobody has to tricked into using a rebreather, the people who use them will go to any lengths to get their hands on one usually. I have used an inspiration down to over one hundred metres, and in hundreds of dives in the 30 to 40 metre range. I would not even consider going back to open circuit. All diving is dangerous to some degree. The ultimate safety precaution is probably to stay at home.

 

[Braunbehrens]

I simply don't care to rehash the debate. Diving is all about risk. Not diving is the safest, diving to 300 ft on an inspirition is iMO the most dangerous. That's just my opinion based on all the stuff I've read.