Deep diving advice that goes against conventional thought?

[dsr30]

What is disgusting is that new divers come on this site looking for real answers and what they get is people like you that spread this Deep Air bull****. Your bio is full of these meaningless Scuba certificates, instructor ratings and avatars showing you in a deep rig so as to add credibility to your insidious pontifications.

So let’s look at what you are “teaching”:



That quote is the ultimate “red flag” to anyone that really does deep dive and understands how to do it safely. It would be laughable if not for those that will believe it and end up killing themselves. As was the case with the diver that started this whole thread. He is dead because he bought into the whole: good on air deep, everyman for himself, solo diving crap. Merely surviving deep air diving is NOT an accomplishment.

Then you try to hide behind some ridiculous science to justify your dangerous attitude by constantly posting the “50 FSW” comment. What is really hilarious is that you don’t even get that right, with all of your pins and patches. The Navy found it to be 30 FSW!



And your best quote never was intended to mean “50 FSW”, it was your acknowledgment of how useless you are deep on air. But to cover that statement when you are exposed, you immediately counter with the “diving is dangerous” as if to justify your stupidity of diving deep air. The reality is that diving is quite safe, safer than many other sports and even safer if done with the proper attitude and knowledge. Proper training, team diving, no deep air.

There will always be the mouths like you, internet experts, the deep air divers, street racers, drunk drivers that will all claim that they are “good” at it with all your patches to prove it. I really don’t care if you and your ilk continue to kill yourselves diving deep air (or in any other stupidity), but stop trying to sell your bull**** to the new divers.

Someone seems to have gotten some sand in some very sensitive areas...

I always get a kick out of people that are internet or hearsay educated telling those who do or have done, that it isn't so, it can't be done, they shouldn't do it because that's against SOP or the classic, "You'll die!!"

"Personally" and "I'm comfortable" to me would indicate that he's speaking of his own comfort level, not teaching someone. If I tell you that I'm comfortable dragging my knees as I ride my ass off on a mountain where if I went over the edge I'd die and you understand as me teaching that it's cool for everyone to do, you have got to be pretty silly. If sharing experiences is read as "do this" or "I did it and so should you" you have a lot to learn.

Your bio is full of these meaningless Scuba certificates, instructor ratings and avatars showing you in a deep rig so as to add credibility to your insidious pontifications.

I guess we shouldn't waste our time or money getting any of these useless certs and ratings, that'll save some time and money...

 

[DCBC]

What is disgusting is...

That some people shoot their mouth off without having any idea what they're talking about.

,,,that new divers come on this site looking for real answers and what they get is people like you that spread this Deep Air bull****.

This is the advanced discussion area; an area not intended to promote 'new diver' discussion. I do however appreciate that you have elected to use mix past 30 FSW. That may well be wise for you, but there are many who choose differently. That does not make them wrong.

Your bio is full of these meaningless Scuba certificates, instructor ratings and avatars showing you in a deep rig so as to add credibility to your insidious pontifications.

And yours indicates someone without any diving background whatsoever; one indicative of a lack of experience and knowledge. Your comments seem to confirm this...

...Then you try to hide behind some ridiculous science to justify your dangerous attitude by constantly posting the “50 FSW” comment. What is really hilarious is that you don’t even get that right, with all of your pins and patches. The Navy found it to be 30 FSW!

Actually different tests have indicated different results. During one test at DCIEM (which I was involved in) the deepest depth where a performance decrease was first observed was 60 FSW. At other times results indicated the performance decrease was first noticed at 50 FSW. I don't doubt that other testing facilities may have experienced different results.

And your best quote never was intended to mean “50 FSW”, it was your acknowledgment of how useless you are deep on air.

Again you continue to underline your ignorance. The question isn't will breathing air at 50 FSW impair a Diver? but at what depth will air become hazardous to diver safety? In other words, at what depth does the lack of performance indicate unacceptable risk?

The answer to this question is that this will vary from person to person on different days. As far as the Navy is concerned, I've successfully passed the Navy's performance evaluations (timed physical and problem solving testing) on air at 200 FSW.

Because you suggest that I'm unsafe, doesn't make it so. You have absolutely no idea of my diving capabilities and I suspect have no idea of your own. This doesn't stop you from being critical of how others elect to dive. You seem to feel that you are the authority and have the final word on what is and is not acceptable (you're the only one who counts). Where do you get-off with that?

There will always be the mouths like you...

It's your right to have an unsubstantiated opinion. I also realize that I can't convince you to be right... Have a nice day AH...

 

[nimoh]

What is disgusting is that new divers come on this site looking for real answers and what they get is people like you that spread this Deep Air bull****.

If a new diver is contemplating a 200' dive, their choice of gas is just one of their many problems.

I would expect anyone doing 200' dives to be informed enough to make their own decisions on deep air and not rely on a discussion in an internet forum. I currently do not dive deep air, but if access to helium becomes an issue, I will probably start.

 

[LiteHedded]

haven't seen a pissing contest like this in quite some time. a bunch of real heroes mouthing off in this one.

 

[DaleC]

What is disgusting is that new divers come on this site looking for real answers and what they get is people like you that spread this Deep Air bull****. Your bio is full of these meaningless Scuba certificates, instructor ratings and avatars showing you in a deep rig so as to add credibility to your insidious pontifications.

What is even more [-]disgusting[/-] comical is someone who has absolutely nothing in their profile indicating who they are or what they do making such a comment. Anonymous gutter sniping -we've never seen that on the interwebs before.

People disagree on forums all the time. In fact, it is those disagreements that spawn some of the most interesting and informative discussions. When we "argue" our position we test it. If it stands up - good, if it fails - time to rethink it. Going all Rush Limbaugh on someone just shows you don't trust the validity of your own position.. or that it isn't yours at all but rather just something you think you are expected to defend because you drank the koolaid.

 

[jadairiii]

What is even more [-]disgusting[/-] comical is someone who has absolutely nothing in their profile indicating who they are or what they do making such a comment. .....

You left out that fact that I only have 42 posts. So if I list all my cert's since 1975 along with a really cool avatar do I then gain your trust? Let me know because that is really important to me.

 

[PfcAJ]

May I propose a question... most recently, the discussion seemed to be revolving around the sequence, in which various skills and equipment should be introduced, particularly in the context of rebreathers, mixed gases, handling stages or bailout bottles, etc. So, in the interest of the broader audience, and to reconnect this discussion to the world of an average diver... suppose that a beginning non-commercial, non-Navy, just an ordinary beginning tech diver wants to entertain the thought of eventually making that 200 FW wreck dive in some small number of years (say 3, or whatever round number you think is appropriate), he/she is willing to allocate sufficient funds for all the required training and equipment without cutting corners or taking unsafe shortcuts (including progressive deep dives, Trimix, rebreathers, or whatever else comes to mind), and will prioritize safety over anything else. What would be the most optimal progression of training, equipment, experience, and deliberate practice that would get them to where they would like to be in a reasonable amout of time?

To reign the discussion back in a bit...

I'd suggest starting with reading this Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers and taking a GUE Fundamentals class. Regardless if you choose to continue down the GUE path, its a hell of a course and you'll learn a lot of foundational things that will be needed later.

After that, go do a bunch of dives. Make what you learned in Fundamentals 'normal'.

Then go take Tech 1. This class certifies you for ~160' dives, single deco gas, and trimix.

Go do a bunch of dives. Go see all the tech 1 dives in your area. All the tech 1 stuff should be second nature before progressing.

There's an option for a Tech 1+ Upgrade. ~180ft, stage bottle, but still single deco gas. I'm on the fence about folks taking this class vs just going and taking Tech 2.

If you're still feeling limited, take Tech 2 (tech 1+ isn't required). This is a class for ~250' dives, stage bottles, two deco gases, hypoxic backgas. Full deal.

Once again, go scuba your face off and master those skills.

I'd argue that a rebreather isn't needed for 99% of scuba dives, especially in the US where helium is relatively inexpensive.

 

[danvolker]

I would agree that the rebreather is not needed by most divers in the US....and that the underwater photographers that think they need one to become silent underwater ( for better access to some fish) would be far better off with a project argonaut system...with fine sponge added to filter the exhaust and eliminate bubble noise......Jack Kellon showed me this when he was developing the precursors to the Halcyon RB80...the BMD rebreather and the Odyssey

see

http://www.fundable.com/vintage-double-hose

Like a vitange double hose reg for open circuit, but brand new....and with traditional 2nd stage for donating.
It is not going to be DIR for handing off a primary in an OOA emergency, but considering the MISSION of pro level u/w photography, and the choices and implications, I think this is way smarter than the rebreather--it could easily have prevented the death of Wes Skiles.




As it was in the good ole days :

 

[Errol Kalayci]

Adhere to Rule #1, and the rest sorts its self out.
JadairIII and PFcAJ just remember what Mark Twain said "Don't argue with idiots, they only bring you down to thier level and beat with you with experience!"

 

[kr2y5]

Thank you, DCBC, 100days-a-year, PfcAJ, and danvolker, for your replies.

If a new diver is contemplating a 200' dive, their choice of gas is just one of their many problems.

I am not sure if you were referring to my post, but I am always very much looking forward to learning more about my problems... in case you did, I would be grateful if you could please elaborate on this point... I might as well learn something new in the process.

I would expect anyone doing 200' dives to be informed enough to make their own decisions on deep air and not rely on a discussion in an internet forum.

I personally did not find that participating in a discussion on ScubaBoard would somehow inhibit my ability to make my own decisions... but I am intrigued, because I encounter this attitude here fairly often. Would you care to share a personal story of your own to illustrate this point?