Deep diving advice that goes against conventional thought?

[kensuf]

Perhaps some Universities in US should include scuba diving as a degree course so one can grade with qualification eg. BSc with classification, MA(Sc), PhD etc etc.
A PhD from a Ivy League/OxBridge is probably better than lesser known Univ?
It is a pissing contest, isn't it?

You can get a university degree with a focus in diving. What You Can Do With This Degree : About the Program : Sport Management ? Diving Industry Program (BS) : School of Human Performance and Leisure Sciences : Barry University, Miami Shores, Florida

 

[jadairiii]

You should be very impressed that the immense amount of time the military puts on CCRs has proven that they don’t need OC bailouts. ....

Or....it could be that the military does not trust them below 30', they don't dive them solo and/or without topside support. But please, if I am wrong tell me about the last time you saw a navy diver on a rb with air dil (or mix) do a 200' dive solo without any topside support?

 

[PfcAJ]

Or....it could be that the military does not trust them below 30', they don't dive them solo and/or without topside support. But please, if I am wrong tell me about the last time you saw a navy diver on a rb with air dil (or mix) do a 200' dive solo without any topside support?

Nevuary 32nd, 199never?

 

[jadairiii]

Gold, Silver and Bronze.......so far.

……….I enter the water expecting my physical and mental performance to deteriorate …...

You should be very impressed that the immense amount of time the military puts on CCRs has proven that they don’t need OC bailouts. …..

….Most folks I know wont train you for helium dilutent until you have MANY hours on Air dilutent…..

I never realized how entertaining Scubaboard was/is, it is a cornucopia of "classic" quotes. Are the other threads as entertaining as this one?

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Originally Posted by Akimbo You should be very impressed that the immense amount of time the military puts on CCRs has proven that they don’t need OC bailouts. ....

Or....it could be that the military does not trust them below 30', they don't dive them solo and/or without topside support. But please, if I am wrong tell me about the last time you saw a navy diver on a rb with air dil (or mix) do a 200' dive solo without any topside support?

I'm not sure where Akimbo is getting his information, but this is from the U.S. Navy Diving Manual:

MK 16 MOD 0 Closed-Circuit Mixed-Gas UBA Diving

17-10.3 Emergency Breathing System (EBS). When planning a MK16 MOD 0 decompression dive, the Diving Supervisor must ensure an alternate air source is available to the diver in the event of a MK 16 failure. The air source must be sufficient to allow the diver to complete his decompression obligation as determined below. See Chapter 7 for procedures to calculate the volume of air required.
U.S. Navy Diving Manual, Rev 6, 15 April 2008
SS521-AG-PRO-010
0910-LP-106-0957

The U.S. Navy doesn't dive these CCR solo. They have the following:

...C. Personnel Assignments
1. Dive pairs
2. Diving Supervisor
3. Diving Officer
4. Standby diver
5. Diving medical personnel
6. Base of operations support personnel...

The U.S. Navy takes this type of diving much more seriously than the civilian divers posting here.

John

 

[DCBC]

Gold, Silver and Bronze.......so far. I never realized how entertaining Scubaboard was/is, it is a cornucopia of "classic" quotes. Are the other threads as entertaining as this one?

If you are diving Air below 50 FSW, you should be aware that your physical and mental performance will deteriorate. It would seem that you're unaware of this physiological truth.

Perhaps it would be better to seek comic relief outside of your ignorance, but if you find this entertaining check-out the Journal of the Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society. I'm sure you'll find this a real laugh as well. :bonk:

 

[kr2y5]

May I propose a question... most recently, the discussion seemed to be revolving around the sequence, in which various skills and equipment should be introduced, particularly in the context of rebreathers, mixed gases, handling stages or bailout bottles, etc. So, in the interest of the broader audience, and to reconnect this discussion to the world of an average diver... suppose that a beginning non-commercial, non-Navy, just an ordinary beginning tech diver wants to entertain the thought of eventually making that 200 FW wreck dive in some small number of years (say 3, or whatever round number you think is appropriate), he/she is willing to allocate sufficient funds for all the required training and equipment without cutting corners or taking unsafe shortcuts (including progressive deep dives, Trimix, rebreathers, or whatever else comes to mind), and will prioritize safety over anything else. What would be the most optimal progression of training, equipment, experience, and deliberate practice that would get them to where they would like to be in a reasonable amout of time?

 

[DCBC]

May I propose a question... most recently, the discussion seemed to be revolving around the sequence, in which various skills and equipment should be introduced, particularly in the context of rebreathers, mixed gases, handling stages or bailout bottles, etc. So, in the interest of the broader audience, and to reconnect this discussion to the world of an average diver... suppose that a beginning non-commercial, non-Navy, just an ordinary beginning tech diver wants to entertain the thought of eventually making that 200 FW wreck dive in some small number of years (say 3, or whatever round number you think is appropriate), he/she is willing to allocate sufficient funds for all the required training and equipment without cutting corners or taking unsafe shortcuts (including progressive deep dives, Trimix, rebreathers, or whatever else comes to mind), and will prioritize safety over anything else. What would be the most optimal progression of training, equipment, experience, and deliberate practice that would get them to where they would like to be in a reasonable amout of time?

I believe that the answer to this question depends largely upon the philosophy of the training agency and the ability/desire of the Instructor that provides the training. Most recreational diving agencies (PADI excluded) do not provide finite certification requirements in-that they establish 'minimum standards' and encourage the Instructor to require more. All technical training agencies (of which I'm aware) run things in a similar manner (including PADI Tec). They establish minimum standards and allow Instructors to establish the standard required for certification. In this way, what is required to be certified depends upon the Instructor.

The historic progression has and is OC before CCR. I believe what's pertinent to the discussion (for me) is not how CCR has been used in the past or even the present, but the direction that seems to be reasonable in the future. If CCR becomes simpler to use and if mass production allows the price to drastically decrease, the beginner may well use CCR or SCCR at the initial stage of training. I would suspect that OC use would be part of this program (it's not brain science).

---------- Post added April 1st, 2014 at 07:57 AM ----------

I'm not sure where Akimbo is getting his information, but this is from the U.S. Navy Diving Manual...

I think what Akimbo means is that there is no operational requirement to carry bailout gas to dive a CCR. USNDM 17-10 makes this a requirement for decompression purposes only. As you're aware John, the USN distinguishes between ND & D equipment requirements.

In the case of a decompression dive using the MOD 1, the EMS is filled with decompression gas (Nitrox) and mounted on the frame assembly of the MK 16. No decompression bottles are ever carried in a manner utilized by civilian technical divers. As maximum operational depth is 320 FSW there's no requirement for a travel gas bailout.

---------- Post added April 1st, 2014 at 08:07 AM ----------

The U.S. Navy doesn't dive these CCR solo.

Although policy prefers a two-man team, this is mission dependent. The DS can allow a solo diver and can even waive the tender requirement. I agree that this isn't normal, but it is authorized.

---------- Post added April 1st, 2014 at 08:14 AM ----------

Or....it could be that the military does not trust them below 30', they don't dive them solo and/or without topside support. But please, if I am wrong tell me about the last time you saw a navy diver on a rb with air dil (or mix) do a 200' dive solo without any topside support?

Will you and PfcAJ please restrict your comments to what you know about? Solo diving a CCR without tender is authorized in 18.2.4.2 of the USNDM. I know it's tempting to think you're an authority, but you're just embarrassing yourselves...

---------- Post added April 1st, 2014 at 08:27 AM ----------

So you're going to tell me that a Navy diver's training is comprehensive, then turn around and say that bailout isn't even carried.

That's right; it's operationally dependent.

Color me unimpressed.

As you continually seem to express an uninformed opinion OK I'm unimpressed. Consider yourself colored accordingly.

 

[100days-a-year]

kr2y5:I went OW-NITROX-Tech NITROX-Deep Air-TriMix.I would recommend skipping the Deep Air now unless you plan to dive where He is unavailable regularly

Another route taken by too many is OW-read tech forums-argue with commercial,military and highly experienced recreational divers-plan on getting tech certs eventually-get them and dive only with like minded divers while castigating anyone who dives differently... given most of them have more time on deco than you have in class and total UW time-start posting in tech forums as though your part time experience was somehow superior to that of those who do this every day and are paid to do it and are entrusted with the lives of others.

 

[jadairiii]

If you are diving Air below 50 FSW, you should be aware that your physical and mental performance will deteriorate. It would seem that you're unaware of this physiological truth.

Perhaps it would be better to seek comic relief outside of your ignorance, but if you find this entertaining check-out the Journal of the Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society. I'm sure you'll find this a real laugh as well. :bonk:

What is disgusting is that new divers come on this site looking for real answers and what they get is people like you that spread this Deep Air bull****. Your bio is full of these meaningless Scuba certificates, instructor ratings and avatars showing you in a deep rig so as to add credibility to your insidious pontifications.

So let’s look at what you are “teaching”:

……Personally I'm comfortable using air to 200 FSW (250 FSW in a pinch), …..

That quote is the ultimate “red flag” to anyone that really does deep dive and understands how to do it safely. It would be laughable if not for those that will believe it and end up killing themselves. As was the case with the diver that started this whole thread. He is dead because he bought into the whole: good on air deep, everyman for himself, solo diving crap. Merely surviving deep air diving is NOT an accomplishment.

Then you try to hide behind some ridiculous science to justify your dangerous attitude by constantly posting the “50 FSW” comment. What is really hilarious is that you don’t even get that right, with all of your pins and patches. The Navy found it to be 30 FSW!

……….I enter the water expecting my physical and mental performance to deteriorate …...

And your best quote never was intended to mean “50 FSW”, it was your acknowledgment of how useless you are deep on air. But to cover that statement when you are exposed, you immediately counter with the “diving is dangerous” as if to justify your stupidity of diving deep air. The reality is that diving is quite safe, safer than many other sports and even safer if done with the proper attitude and knowledge. Proper training, team diving, no deep air.

There will always be the mouths like you, internet experts, the deep air divers, street racers, drunk drivers that will all claim that they are “good” at it with all your patches to prove it. I really don’t care if you and your ilk continue to kill yourselves diving deep air (or in any other stupidity), but stop trying to sell your bull**** to the new divers.