Deep diving advice that goes against conventional thought?

[boulderjohn]

I am not a rebreather diver, sp I am not up on the fine points. I was nearby when one nearly died--I was surprised to learn he had lived. I was present for and even assisted in the immediate analysis of his gear. He and his buddy were extremely experienced rebreather divers doing a short dive to about 95 feet. The victim signaled a problem and went for his bailout, but before he could get to it, his buddy got his own bailout regulator in his mouth just as he was going unconscious. The victim was reaching for a bailout bottle that was also serving as his diluent, with an O2 percentage of 52. His rescuer donated a bailout/diluent mix of 38%.

They had both asked for those mixes and signed for them when they got their fills.

Some would argue that they made a mistake, but it was clearly intentional.

 

[PfcAJ]

I do not have a cavalier attitude. People that switch to the wrong gas either have no training at all or completely ignored thier training. 100% of those fatalities are complacency related, not experiance related.

And what do you think is likely to happen for someone who has very little OC deco experience when they have a RB failure on a deep dive? These skills erode over time, and if you're on a CCR, there is no gas switching and no bottle movement. Not being practiced (and by practiced I mean more than "I did it a few times with my instructor") in these things increases your likelihood of making a wrong switch or dropping a bottle, or becoming hyper-focused on a task and losing awareness of your depth or team.

And bailout is ALWAYS required. Suggesting otherwise (looking at you, DCBC) is beyond ridiculous.

 

[tomfcrist]

Well PFc, you just said it....skills erode over time. So that guy with 200 OC dives on the doria is equally as screwed after he switches to CCR and hasn't dove deep OC in 15 years.

I really see no "skill" involved in gas switching, just knowledge, and procedure. You are honestly overstating the difficulty of doing it properly.

 

[PfcAJ]

Well PFc, you just said it....skills erode over time. So that guy with 200 OC dives on the doria is equally as screwed after he switches to CCR and hasn't dove deep OC in 15 years.

I really see no "skill" involved in gas switching, just knowledge, and procedure. You are honestly overstating the difficulty of doing it properly.

Yea. I think that a person who dives CCR all the time will have degraded OC skills. Thats bad. Its even worse when someone who doesn't have base OC skills at all straps on a RB which can easily take them farther/deeper/longer than they could on OC.

The fact that you don't see this as a skill speaks volumes.

"200 OC dives on the doria." Does that come with pizza stained tshirts, too? Ugh

 

[danvolker]

"200 OC dives on the doria." Does that come with pizza stained tshirts, too? Ugh

Best use of a Classic image!!!!!.......AJ gets votes for best post tonight from both sides ! c'mon Tom, you have to wish you could have worked this in before Aj did

 

[DaleC]

...Its even worse when someone who doesn't have base OC skills at all straps on a RB which can easily take them farther/deeper/longer than they could on OC...

I don't see why one would assume certain behaviors from either OC or RB divers. People are individuals and whether they will do something foolish is not predicted by which system they use.

Having said that I think it's true to say the actual incidence of divers going beyond their experience/equipment threshhold is far greater in OC than RB. The high cost of RB's and the fact that training is often part of the purchase discussion and overall culture is at least a pause for consideration. A person is making a pretty conscious decision to use that equipment for more than simple rec diving.

OTOH, basic OC divers need only dive deeper with gear they already use. How often is there discussion about divers doing unsafe deep dives with single 80's, no bailout, no deco, no redundancy etc... The ability and prevalence are only a split second decision away from the commonplace. If they do that we certainly don't blame the gear, we blame the person.

The ease of availability and ubiquitous nature of OC gear makes it far more likely to be misused by untrained, inexperienced divers.

 

[DCBC]

And bailout is ALWAYS required. Suggesting otherwise (looking at you, DCBC) is beyond ridiculous.

Carrying one is, using it isn't. What's ridiculous is your attitude. How long have you been using CCR? What unit do you use? Who was your Instructor? Or is this just another time when your particular beliefs outweigh others because it just happens to be your unsubstantiated opinion?

 

[PfcAJ]

Carrying one is, using it isn't. What's ridiculous is your attitude. How long have you been using CCR? What unit do you use? Who was your Instructor? Or is this just another time when your particular beliefs outweigh others because it just happens to be your unsubstantiated opinion?

I don't use a Ccr. Gaining hours on a scr, however. Ccr isn't a practical tool for the type of diving I do. Doesn't change the fact that skills erode and need to be solid.

Your earlier post really made
it sound like you were suggesting that a diver not need bailout (and some people actually dive like that).

 

[boulderjohn]

Your ur earlier post really madd
it sound like you were suggesting that a diver not need bailout (and some people actually dive like that).

Wes Skiles, for example.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

..And bailout is ALWAYS required. Suggesting otherwise (looking at you, DCBC) is beyond ridiculous.

Can you explain this a bit more? I dive without bailout all the time, and have done so for years. Many times I am diving vintage double hose regulators. I usually dive in a river with a current that is much greater than 2 knots (under river rapids). Having more than a single tank would be a drag issue. And I've been tangled in fishing line before; a bailout is a potential hangup on fishing line. My bailout is the surface.

SeaRat