Deep cert or aim for tech
- Thread starter soggybadger
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It depends on where are you are based.
A few of the top names in technical diving have already been mentioned. Rich Walker is pretty much the head honcho for GUE in the UK. He is a very very good instructor. Based near Vobster. However do go down the GUE route you will have to do fundamentals, then tech 1. It will cost a lot of money. And it's not for everyone. If you are incredibly commited it's maybe the way to go.
More realistically (for most people) Mark Powell is a great instructor. He's based in Wales near NDAC. You also have Tim Gort with TDI who is also very good - Birmingham but in the Army so also works away. Another option is Neil Brock who is based in Cardiff. Any of those would give you brilliant training.
Or you could go to Vobster and do art with the resident team who are actually pretty good. That will get you deeper more quickly.
A few of the top names in technical diving have already been mentioned. Rich Walker is pretty much the head honcho for GUE in the UK. He is a very very good instructor. Based near Vobster. However do go down the GUE route you will have to do fundamentals, then tech 1. It will cost a lot of money. And it's not for everyone. If you are incredibly commited it's maybe the way to go.
More realistically (for most people) Mark Powell is a great instructor. He's based in Wales near NDAC. You also have Tim Gort with TDI who is also very good - Birmingham but in the Army so also works away. Another option is Neil Brock who is based in Cardiff. Any of those would give you brilliant training.
Or you could go to Vobster and do art with the resident team who are actually pretty good. That will get you deeper more quickly.
I had hundreds of dives with a good portion of them at around 40m before I began my tech training. For me the biggest transition was with the mindset and approach to tech. Dive planning and task loading were skills I needed to adapt to and develop (and continue to develop) regardless of the depth. In fact most of my drills and training dives were at fairly shallow depths with "simulated" deco stops... and that also includes training for overhead environments (advanced wreck).
That being said, I think it's always good to get a few more dives in and build experience gradually before moving on to the next level - whether its tech or rec.
Good luck with your training.
That being said, I think it's always good to get a few more dives in and build experience gradually before moving on to the next level - whether its tech or rec.
Good luck with your training.
DevonDiver
N/A
On balance, I'd probably prefer a student who'd done dozens of shallow skill practices to perfect their core skills, than one who'd done dozens of 'typical' recreational deep dives. 'Typical' meaning: cluelessly following around a DM on vacation dives.
The biggest impediment to progression in tech training tends to be weak fundamentals, rather than insufficient 'experience'.
The biggest impediment to progression in tech training tends to be weak fundamentals, rather than insufficient 'experience'.
Well.... to me ONE is the PERFECT number of students for the deep specialty. In my case two is the maximum number of students I'll do that specialty with at one time and when I do it with two divers I need to have a DM with me too.
So right there I'm getting a red-flag about the instructors you're talking to. It could be nothing but be aware that not all instructors are created equally. Making groups larger usually has financial as opposed to quality underpinnings. When instructors start making decisions based upon anything other than delivering a certain level of quality then I start to get increasingly concerned as the groups get larger...
I'm not saying that I know for sure that this is what you're coming up against, but I would advise you to be aware that this does happen so keep your BS radar turned on.
That said.... you need more experience either way before you take technical training. If your profile is up to date then you are a novice diver so I would advise you to wait and take the deep specialty (or find an instructor like myself who likes small groups). Normally speaking I wouldn't advise a diver with less than ... say ... 200-300 dives to take technical training at all, let alone with limited deep experience.
So what you need to do is to get deep certified and then take some time to rack up 100 or so dives between 30 and 40m before thinking about technical training.
That would be my advice.
R..
LloydPickering
New
Some very experienced divers and instructors have posted, but it sounds like you are on a similar journey to me about 6 months ago, so I'll throw in my 2bar.
I completed PADI OW last summer, and AOW with Nitrox autumn last year. After that I was invited on a trip to the Sound of Mull in April to dive some of the wrecks (Breda, Rondo, Shuna, Hispania, Thesis). In order to come on the trip I was told I had to complete Rescue and Deep before going (as well as be completely comfortable with ascents on a DSMB). I did this, and independently decided to do Sidemount (primarily so I had a completely redundant air supply, with flexibility over entry/exit techniques), and I thoroughly enjoyed the trip. I also have fallen in love with sidemount, despite now being cast as the oddball of the dive club for doing so!
In my (very limited, and very inexperienced) opinion the PADI Deep specialty isn't particularly great, but it will extend your range within NDLs using the sort of equipment you are using now.
I am now looking to the future (Scapa in November) and have been asking around my local dive club/instructors and they are all recommending after I get a bit more experience under my belt (currently only on 50 dives) that I strongly consider AN/DP or AN/Heliotrox with someone like Mark Powell (I don't know if he is happy for students to be in sidemount, or whether he absolutely requires twinset). The most important point they have made is choose the right instructor rather than agency - particularly for tec training.
The main thing you personally have to question, is whether your skills are good enough to start technical training. I constantly work on my trim, and I feel it's pretty good, but I still feel I have a long way to go (particularly when task loaded).You also need to consider that to start technical training you will need to spend money not only on courses, but almost certainly on new equipment too.
My advice is do the deep specialty. You can use pretty much the same equipment you have now, and it's not too much of a lift from what you are certified on now. Consider doing it with a different instructor if you have done all your training with the same instructor(s). Across my 9 courses I have had training from 6 different PADI instructors.
Get extremely comfortable with your buoyancy and trim in the water; not just while swimming, but holding still, and task loaded. Get a dive buddy to video this. Do a lot of reading. Lurking on Scubaboard has given me loads to think about, and books like Deco for Divers are brilliant for a smart rec diver thinking about tec training. When you feel you are being limited by your NDL, and are in a place to broadly understand (and accept the risks involved), consider tec training.
I completed PADI OW last summer, and AOW with Nitrox autumn last year. After that I was invited on a trip to the Sound of Mull in April to dive some of the wrecks (Breda, Rondo, Shuna, Hispania, Thesis). In order to come on the trip I was told I had to complete Rescue and Deep before going (as well as be completely comfortable with ascents on a DSMB). I did this, and independently decided to do Sidemount (primarily so I had a completely redundant air supply, with flexibility over entry/exit techniques), and I thoroughly enjoyed the trip. I also have fallen in love with sidemount, despite now being cast as the oddball of the dive club for doing so!
In my (very limited, and very inexperienced) opinion the PADI Deep specialty isn't particularly great, but it will extend your range within NDLs using the sort of equipment you are using now.
I am now looking to the future (Scapa in November) and have been asking around my local dive club/instructors and they are all recommending after I get a bit more experience under my belt (currently only on 50 dives) that I strongly consider AN/DP or AN/Heliotrox with someone like Mark Powell (I don't know if he is happy for students to be in sidemount, or whether he absolutely requires twinset). The most important point they have made is choose the right instructor rather than agency - particularly for tec training.
The main thing you personally have to question, is whether your skills are good enough to start technical training. I constantly work on my trim, and I feel it's pretty good, but I still feel I have a long way to go (particularly when task loaded).You also need to consider that to start technical training you will need to spend money not only on courses, but almost certainly on new equipment too.
My advice is do the deep specialty. You can use pretty much the same equipment you have now, and it's not too much of a lift from what you are certified on now. Consider doing it with a different instructor if you have done all your training with the same instructor(s). Across my 9 courses I have had training from 6 different PADI instructors.
Get extremely comfortable with your buoyancy and trim in the water; not just while swimming, but holding still, and task loaded. Get a dive buddy to video this. Do a lot of reading. Lurking on Scubaboard has given me loads to think about, and books like Deco for Divers are brilliant for a smart rec diver thinking about tec training. When you feel you are being limited by your NDL, and are in a place to broadly understand (and accept the risks involved), consider tec training.
billt4sf
Contributor
Do you really only have 0 - 24 dives? If so, take nitrox and just enjoy diving for a while. Maybe GUE Fundies if you want to go that way. Leave the tech and deep stuff until you have more dives. Relax and enjoy the show.
- Bill
While it is indeed good to have good experience in diving, and the advice to work on buoyancy and trim is a good one, I would like to restate the quote above to point out a problem with this advice.
What if we were not talking about scuba but were instead talking about another activity, like playing golf? Would you advise someone to get a lot more experience playing golf before taking lessons? Would you really advise someone to practice, practice, practice those poor techniques before getting with an instructor who will try to fix those ingrained habits?
Is it possible that someone might improve skills, especially buoyancy and trim, under the tutelage of an instructor who really knows what he or she is doing and can give helpful tips? If I knew someone in this situation, i would like to see that person in the water and give advice before that person takes another dive.
GUE Fundamentals was created as an introduction to cave diving because people who were coming into cave training did not have the necessary basic skills needed for those classes. It is essentially an introduction to technical diving, and the only shop I know of that offers it in the area where I live uses it for that purpose--it is a required introduction to its technical diving program.
The skills that are taught in it are not unique to GUE--all technical divers have those skills, and all agencies that offer technical diving offer introductory classes. Any instructor in any agency who is also a technical diver should be able to teach those skills, and every technical instructor in every agency offers a class that teaches those skills.
You don't have to go on to technical diving, though. You can take classes like that just for those basic skills. GUE will require that you have 100% their specified gear package. Many of the other programs will teach those skills in whatever gear you own, only requiring the tech gear if you are going on to the full tech program.
KevinNM
Contributor
I will point out that I took a fundamentals course with a guy who had full cave from another agency (and his buddy) and not one of us even got a rec pass in doubles. (We all got provisionals, which means the instructor thinks that it is possible for you to get to a passing skill level in the next 6 months.) I was by far the least skilled, but it was like my tenth dive in doubles.
It's a "somewhat more demanding standard" to enter the GUE tech programs than a lot of other programs have for their tech graduates.
It's a "somewhat more demanding standard" to enter the GUE tech programs than a lot of other programs have for their tech graduates.
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