Deep Air

[LiteHedded]

Over Labor Day weekend we used ~1500cf of gas. How much would that have run you?

30 bucks maybe?

 

[Diver0001]

I stand corrected.


So how much intoxication do we justify.

That seems to be the the crux of this discussion.

There are many divers who say that they're uncomfortable deeper than 100ft on air. Some of them also insist that diving deeper than 100ft on air is bad mojo. Some of them even start to foam at the mouth if you disagree with them about this opinion.

Others are more lenient. As I stated earlier in this thread, I routinely dive as deep as 140 on air but I'm not comfortable diving deeper than 165. I've done it before, which is why I know I"m not comfortable with it. That would make me insane by the judgement of some and a hopeless guppy by the estimation of others.

Just a point about those limits. Keep in mind when I say this I probably have 10 times as many dives as you do including many deep dives going back 25 years and my body is not the same as your body so what *I* am comfortable with doing isn't necessarily what *you* should try. I know that might sound arrogant but I really don't want to encourage you to do anything stupid so please remember, there are too many variables to see things like this in black and white!

If you want to find these things out for yourself then the best approach is to push this envelop slowly and intelligently with a *good* and sensible mentor. Start by making a whole bunch of 100ft dives (assuming you're comfortable with those depths already) until diving at 100ft feels the same to you as diving at 10ft and then work up slowly from there. This opinion won't fall well with the group because deep air diving is a taboo in the diving community and probably for good reason.

At some point you'll start to realize that not only narcosis is problematic, but air consumption (the gear), the NDL's and a range of other factors will conspire to severely limit how far you can push this boundary. I think most divers can handle 100ft readily but there's a very big jump in complexity from 130 to 150 and beyond. These limits may not be "hard" laws but there are good reasons why they are recommended.

And don't forget, diving deep is not to be taken lightly. Problems can become severe very quickly and many incidents that start out deep end badly.

R..

 

[HowardE]

Certainly - Helium is great, and makes your head clear, and who wouldn't prefer that. But to assume that it's unsafe, macho, stupid, or dumb, when you haven't experienced it is just pretty lame if you ask me.

 

[rjack321]

Another aspect of this topic that gets buried under the arguments about risk is that some people simply dive deep because it's fun for them. It may be risky but if they're aware of what they're getting into and willing to take personal responsiblity for running that risk then I wonder how "judgemental" we really ought to be about it. People ski, cycle, drive, etc etc too fast too because it's fun and it doesn't seem to spark such intense debate as this does. Taking "calculated" risks is also part of human nature.

In this instance, syntax has no trimix training so I don't really think the risk-benefit spectrum is fully informed. Exactly like it wasn't with the young man following his mentors in Monterey and the 2 men in Eagle's nest with their OW deco instructor and so they went back there and died on their own - doing something stupid with a stupid mix, inadequate bailout etc. Diving ignorant is not really excusable in 2009.

And second its NEVER "just" personal responsibility. When poo hits the fan at >130ft you aren't coming home if its a novel problem you need to solve. Someone will be notifying next of kin. Someone will sue someone else on the boat. Caves can be closed. Buddies will be changed forever.

 

[gcbryan]

There are some thoughtful responses here and then there is just repeated dogma.

If you can't know what it's like to dive trimix without doing it and if you can't have a valid opinion then you can't have a valid opinion regarding diving deep air unless you really have some experience and not just I tried it once and it scared me to death.

Diver0001 is right, there are many way to mitigate risk. If you don't have a clear head then you might be more vigilant especially with a bit of experience behind you. If you have a clear head you may decide that it's ok to take more risk.

Someone going to 200fsw and swimming around a wreck may be safer than someone going to 200 fsw on trimix and crawling through the wreck.

There are extreme cases either way and it's not helpful to use those cases to make a point. I would agree that 200fsw on air is approaching extreme it's not as one sided as is presented in these forums from time to time.

 

[cfenton]

nickel rocketry and false bravado
I like it

Seriously though, I don't know why you guys continually participate in this "debate." Especially this time...the competition just isn't there!

Helium is your friend. End of discussion.

 

[gcbryan]

Seriously though, I don't know why you guys continually participate in this "debate." Especially this time...the competition just isn't there!

Helium is your friend. End of discussion.

Helium is your friend, air is for tires, computers rot your brain, you don't know what you don't know, plan your dive and dive your plan...

Have any more original thoughts?

 

[cfenton]

Have any more original thoughts?

No, that's all I've got.

There really is nothing original left to say in the deep air "debate." So...I choose to mock the "debate" rather than participate.

 

[Diver0001]

Here's a question.

Do you think the previous generation of deep air divers would have become deep air divers if helium, proper training and tools like Vplanner had been as readily available to them as they are to us?

We know the song they sang, but would they have sung a different tune if they could have.... :thinking:

R..

 

[PfcAJ]

Helium is your friend, air is for tires, computers rot your brain, you don't know what you don't know, plan your dive and dive your plan...

Have any more original thoughts?

One more...

YOU'RE GUNNA DIE!!!!!