Deep Air survey

[Arnaud]

I just don't get the appeal of deep diving. Water is cold, light is poor, colors are lost, air disappears faster than a pack of twinkies at a redneck party... I've been many times at depths greater than 100 ft, but never enjoyed it. Not to mention the increased risks, deco time, etc. Obviously, if professional reasons are involved, that's another story. But for rec diving, what's the point?:bonk:

 

[MikeFerrara]

Arnaud once bubbled...
I just don't get the appeal of deep diving. Water is cold, light is poor, colors are lost, air disappears faster than a pack of twinkies at a redneck party... I've been many times at depths greater than 100 ft, but never enjoyed it. Not to mention the increased risks, deco time, etc. Obviously, if professional reasons are involved, that's another story. But for rec diving, what's the point?:bonk:

If what you want to see and do are shallow than that is the best to be. You are right there is more risk and cost in general in going deep. There needs to be a reason. Different divers have different reasons. but IMO the objective should never be just to go deep. Me I love caves and wrecks. The only caves within weekend diving distance are on the deep side. They, for me, are more than worth seeing. seeing it is the reward for years of work. I also love wrecks. I don't mean artificial wrecks, to me that's just littering. I mean wrecks with real history. The good ones are often on the deep side. But...depth is not my objective. I also enjoy a challanging dive (sometimes), On the other hand I spend many hours engaged in another kind of diving I enjoy, photographing and watching the fresh water fish I grew up fishing for. I always wanted to see what was down there.

 

[Wreck/Tec]

I was content to let this lie as I stated in the Tec diving thread. I didn't think it was very apporpriate to be giving younger/entry divers the green light, or the impression this could be performed non shalantly without training of some kind or toutering. I was promptly roasted by some who assumed I was doing Helium without any certification and or training. The Roast continued with references alluding to my reluctance to pay for courses. Heaven forbid someone from the other side of the tracks violates our playground! Tri Mix is to rich for my blood..........This is where I play thank you very much. I am not your fool. If I believed I was I would have been offended. I merely am shakeing my head at those of you enjoying the fire while I view it from the spit ! I can't help but think this is building to yet another bon fire !

 

[jack evans]

After 100fsw Iam not myself. Maybe it's just me ,but I really lose all sense of reality. Had to count the lines on my SPG to figure out the pres. in my tank. Only did it once. A man has got to know his limits.

Jack

 

[MikeFerrara]

Wreck/Tec,

I went back and read the responses to your posts including my own. I didn't see anything offensive in it. I didn't see anything that looked like a roast. It didn't look like anyone assumed you were using helium. My purpose for mentioning my gas bill was to illustrate the comparatively small portion of the overall cost that training represents. You did point out your reluctance to pay for training and insinuated self study and mentoring was adequate. While it might be with the right mentor the right ones are few and hard to spot and they often (not always) carry an instructor card and charge for their services. Technical diving is very expensive. The gas is expensive the boats are expensive the training is expensive and the equipment is expensive. IMO, one needs to come to terms with that from the start.

Some common ways technical divers often cut costs is to learn to do things like clean and visual tanks, rebuild regs and mix gas. Paying someone else to service a dozen regs, clean and inspect a truckload of tanks or buying a couple hundred dollars worth of fills for a single dive is a large ongoing cost. For economy and other reasons most deep divers eventually feel the need to do these things themselves. The training is a onetime cost that is small in the long run.

It has nothing to do with different sides of the tracks or gaurding my playground.

 

[Wreck/Tec]

Mike F.
I assume you are an Instructor if not a shop owner. You are well versed in diving, that's apparent. I'm sure you probably have peoples best interests in mind. I have reviewed past threads only to come away empty handed for what I'm looking for. I should probably, and will, apologise now, along with an explanation. I appologise.....I was not attacking you, however you frustrated the crap out of me. I am painfully aware of the costs of Tri Mix coarses, Gas, and the equipment needed......I suppose if you knew me you would understand. But you don't, and you won't, so please accept my apology.
Thank You........Wreck/Tec

 

[MikeFerrara]

Wreck/Tec,

I sent you a PM.

 

[AquaTec]

Again I am just catching up here and have just been breezing over the post of interests.
so some of my thoughts here may be repeats or off subject...but that has never stopped me before hey.

COST
of tech course is nothing compaired to the cost of actualy doing the dives that you are getting the training to do. if you are complaining about the cost of the course then you are not ready for the financial commitment envolved in technical diving. gear, gas, boats, updated gear, more gas, special boats, repairing your gear, boosters for your gas, analyzers for your gas, bigger boats, tossing away gear because it has served it purpose and needs to be replaced because it is worn out twice as fast as normal gear. now you add to that travel because you are able to dive deeper, better, longer. and believe me everything is ten times more expensive for the tech diver than the regular diver...but the rewards are 100 fold so there is a pay off....you just work to dive now!!!

TRAINING
It is best to recieve the training for a profesional instructor, and to have that instructor become your mentor. that being said i do understand the concept of learning without a course....i am an Advanced Trimix instructor, technical cave diver, yada yada yada..there are no more courses for me to take but i still continue to learn every day, every dive, via my peers, mentors, and experience of my own dives and others and I learn new stuff by going to lectures by some of the great divers i respect.

so there is something to be said for training outside of a classroom, but it can not replace the classroom setting in my oppinion.

just some thoughts

 

[Amanda]

Just found this poll, and just posted on it. Deepest dive was 56 meters, I assume it is on the 150-180 ft range isn't it ? I know it's deep but I think the conditions were perfect:

-well known buddy with air consumption as low as mine
-a 30 meters viz
- big full tanks
-no stress, no flu, no party the night before
-no waves

 

[Popeye]

Reading through this thread, it came to me that there's no standard definition for Deep Air.

Some people consider me a deep air advocate, but I'm not. I just dont have set, arbitrary limits that some people seem fond of.

I would say my air limit is generally 150, although I would extend that for certain dives and circumstances.

On the other hand, there are dives at 130 ft that I -wouldn't- do on air. And frankly, helium isn't very available for the traveler.

To decide to attend trimix training is a big decision. You have to ask yourself how many dive a year you'll do that warrant helium, and if it's worth the $1000+ you'll spend on the class alone, and if you feel that training is necessary just to use helium as a breathing medium.

At least two agencies offer NDL helium classes now.

Are they really necessary?

Deep Air isn't the dragon everybody makes it out to be. The extensively heralded "deep air death list" is a fallacy.

The vast majority of the worlds' divers have been and still do use deep air. Probably the most intelligent point of view on deep air comes from Hal Watts, who encourages divers to learn their own personal limits, and make no assumptions.

It's your dive, don't let anyone else do your thinking.