Deciding the future of goliath grouper

[danvolker]

Maybe if you're not Jewish, which you obviously aren't. I am. Get it yet?

Strangely enough, I don't know of any "Jesus fish" or "Christian fish"....

Submariner, there are huge numbers of Jewish divers here in South Florida... I do not think I have ever met even one, that feels this politically correct nonsense of renaming the fish, is anything more than---- the most wasteful form of "government spending money" to do things that don't need to be done....and then getting a "baby kissing" benefit from it in the media....

Again, you making statements that infer that you have actually witnessed this behaviour of people disregarding the law. Yes or no? And if yes what are you doing about it?!



A fish higher up in the food chain than what you have caught will "hammer any fish on a line". I have personally witnessed anything from small sharks to barracuda, to assorted groupers do just that. The only point that makes is the logical one of not keeping what you catch in the water on a string.

I think what is going on here, is that Dumpster diver, like many of us who are long time locals, have been around fisherman enough ( at the docks, at the Tiki Bars, pulled up along side us --their boat and our boat, etc) to be aware of their behaviors for real ( as opposed to getting from NBC News).

Instead of attacking Dumpster Diver, you might use him as a resource for actually knowing what is going on, and why it is....I hope you realize that TV news will NEVER be a truthful or realistic method for you to learn about critical issues.
Meanwhile, the fishing lobby is huge compared to our tiny lobby of scuba divers. Our only hope is to share environmental concerns that they have in common with us, and to reach compromises with the areas we disagree....

Personally I enjoy Jewfish ( Goliath Groupers...but in my diving from 72 to 1990 they were Jewfish....)....and I get massively pissed if I see any behaviors that could hurt them. If I have an opportunity to DO Something, I will do it every time. However, the worst thing I could do is get the bulk of the fisherman so pissed at divers and jewfish, that they end up feeling like they have their own private and undeclared WAR against the Jewfish.


One of the things we could do here, is to discuss what we "could do", without making things worse...

• Magazine articles many of us could contribute to, which show Goliath Groupers as big puppy dogs, friendly to divers...Like a pet...creates a protective feeling in the public at large....magazines would need to be mainstream, like Travel and Leisure, Time, People, something with wide demographic and circulation far greater than the tiny little dive magazines--essentially useless in altering public opinion.
• Newspaper articles like above
• Make friends with a fisherman today( boat captain of Sportfish, etc) and begin the slow process of learning their side, and sharing our side.....

How about a bunch of other ideas?

Regards,
DanV

 

[Walter]

I voted "kill them all" as a protest over the slanted nature of the poll. There are areas in which no level of fishing should be allowed, but off the SW Florida coast, Jewfish are quite common. A very small take could be allowed in this area and maybe others.

Cheryl, I know you are Jewish. This is a magnificant animal, I would be proud to have it named after any group to which I belong. If you believe the name was given to the fish to in any way put down Jews, I can understand why you would be offended by the name. Of course there's no evidence that the name was given for that reason nor is anyone using the name in that manner. Assuming the name needed to be changed, why would naming it after a man famous for being an enemy to Jews be a better choice?

 

[bluejaykaren]

Teens4Oceans

The Goliath Grouper Project has this webcam and a great place to observe the Goliath Groupers in the wild. This time of year you can always see them here on the webcame unless the vis is too bad.

 

[SubMariner]

Submariner, there are huge numbers of Jewish divers here in South Florida... I do not think I have ever met even one, that feels this politically correct nonsense of renaming the fish, is anything more than---- the most wasteful form of "government spending money" to do things that don't need to be done....and then getting a "baby kissing" benefit from it in the media....

In Australia they call them Potato Cod or Potato Groupers. So "jewfish" is hardly a universal term. However, having been the brunt of antisemitism I know I don't take kindly to the term "jewing down" someone or being called a "kike" either. You can add "you people" to the list as well. Regardless, if someone actually tells you they are offended when their ethnicity is used in what they deem an inappropriate way, I don't see why the argument need continue.

FYI, I am not a "Jewish Guy".

I think what is going on here, is that Dumpster diver, like many of us who are long time locals, have been around fisherman enough ( at the docks, at the Tiki Bars, pulled up along side us --their boat and our boat, etc) to be aware of their behaviors for real ( as opposed to getting from NBC News).

Considering that I lived aboard a sailboat in the Caribbean for 2 years, I don't think I need a lecture about eating what you catch, living responsibly from the sea, and being aware of underwater critter behaviour. Not to mention local/national statutes on what you can and cannot take from the sea. So the the casting of my personal net for information may is considerably wider than you think.

 

[Walter]

In Australia they call them Potato Cod or Potato Groupers.

That's a different species. They are related, but they are not the same.

 

[Peter_C]

Fixed it for you!

Many people eat all the desirable snapper and grouper. There has been very limited feeding studies and the dissemnation of the results of these studies has been very weak.

 

[danvolker]

In Australia they call them Potato Cod or Potato Groupers. So "jewfish" is hardly a universal term. However, having been the brunt of antisemitism I know I don't take kindly to the term "jewing down" someone or being called a "kike" either. You can add "you people" to the list as well. Regardless, if someone actually tells you they are offended when their ethnicity is used in what they deem an inappropriate way, I don't see why the argument need continue.

FYI, I am not a "Jewish Guy".




Considering that I lived aboard a sailboat in the Caribbean for 2 years, I don't think I need a lecture about eating what you catch, living responsibly from the sea, and being aware of underwater critter behaviour. Not to mention local/national statutes on what you can and cannot take from the sea. So the the casting of my personal net for information may is considerably wider than you think.

My first impression of you is that you are hypersensitive. I can't imagine you having a useful conversation with our typical "Florida Redneck" fisherman, as they are not known for being politically correct, or worrying much about "stepping on toes"... If anything, most would enjoy gettig a "rise" out of you, from your responses so far.


The real solution is not in creating a Police state of constant fear and perpetual Law Enforcement. This is the tack you are on with Dumpster Diver... ....THE SOLUTION is a cultural change.
If you want this cultural change, you will certainly understand that you have only so far you can push a person ( at any given time) and remain inside their "Lattitude of Acceptance" ....if your ideas stray too far from theirs, you become the opposition and your ideas will feel very negative to them...lots of little small movements of attitude are much closer in line with a winning strategy on gaining a cultural change.

So why did you sound so upset by my posts...? I am much easier to talk to than most of our Florida Redneck Fisherman...

Regards,
DanV

 

[Megaptera]

To the forum,
I'm one of the few scientists doing research on goliath grouper who is open to talk to all the stakeholders involved in the process and doing science outreach. Please, refrain from shooting the messenger and listen (or read). When I write in this forum, I speak as an independent scientist, bringing with me all my years of research,and conclusions obtained by myself and others working in the field.

The most up to date information on goliath grouper was published Open source (free download). Google Endangered Species Research (ESR) journal, go to vol 7, number 3.

To all those interested on killing and eating goliath grouper (a.k.a. jewfish) known also as Epinephelus itajara, I would remind them that goliaths have shown extremely high levels of methyl mercury. (see ESR publication above). Scientists think this is due to the goliaths spending almost the first decade of their lives in mangrove habitats, picking up all the pollution coming from our cities and towns. Methyl mercury is extremely poisonous when ingested, it causes mental retardation in children, anomalies in the unborn fetus when ingested by pregnant or planning to be pregnant mothers, erectile dysfunction in men, and it is thought a direct precursor of mental diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinsons. I don't understand why someone will be willing to subject himself/herself, or his/her loved ones to such danger by eating goliath grouper meat.

The issue of considering goliath groupers as a pest, comes from a shifting baseline. The majority of fishers complaining today have been fishing in Florida for 20 years or less. Their baseline is one of total extinction of goliath groupers (which started in the 1980s), , their first memories are zero or very few goliaths. Therefore, each new sighting is perceived as a 100 % increase. Such perception of abundance is misleading.

As a reality check, there are only two confirmed spawning aggregations of goliath grouper left in Florida. Down from at least 50 that were recognized prior to the extinction event of the late 1980s.

There are a few outreach posts explaining the diet of goliath grouper. I suggest you google the sentence "teamorca five common myths about goliath grouper" and you'll find answers to most of the questions already posted here, including diet of goliath grouper.

When I say that goliath grouper cannot survive any level of exploitation at this point, I take into consideration the ongoing mortality caused by catastrophic events, mainly cold fish kills (they kill large numbers of juvenile groupers), and red tides (killing mostly reproductive adults). Therefore, the recovering goliath grouper population experiences a "sandwich effect" losing both their future (their juveniles) and their precious recovery tool (their adults). There is also a persistent poaching problem going which has not been fully evaluated, while the quality of their critical habitat is constantly threatened.

Finally, continued conservation of goliath grouper is NOT a species-only approach. It just happens that goliath groupers are a key indicator species of ecosystem health. In other words, we need the big animals of the ocean to have functional ecosystems (there is a lot of research done on this respect, and if anyone is interested, i can list the key scientific papers involved).

Elsewhere in the Caribbean, the goliath groupers are pretty much gone (scientists call it ecological extinction). We have the rare opportunity of doing something very special in Florida, by giving a chance to the last remaining population of the largest grouper in the Atlantic ocean.

Please, keep posting your concerns and ideas here at Scubaboard. Let's use this public forum to educate ourselves, and to learn form each other. I'll try to answer all comments and questions to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Megaptera]

The best action item I could give you right now, particularly to the SCUBA diving community, is to attend the SEDAR goliath grouper workshop. The meeting is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. I have been in many of such meetings, and the SCUBA diving community is not represented there, because you don't go!. In it's absence, I have tried to fill in the void, explaining their concerns, and the economic value that the SCUBA industry generates for the Florida economy.
But I can only do so much.
Please, consider to attend the upcoming meeting in Key West, even if you could only go for a few hours or one day.
Location: Key West Marriott Beachside Hotel, 3841 N. Roosevelt Blvd, Key West, FL 33040; telephone: (305) 296-8100.
Time:November 15, 2010: 10 a.m. - 8 p.m.; November 16-17, 2010, 8 a.m. - 8 p.m.

 

[SubMariner]

Fixed it for you!
"Many people eat all the desirable snapper and grouper. There has been very limited feeding studies and the dissemnation of the results of these studies has been very weak."

Well said!

FYI, for those who are interested, here's a link to the current Florida Fish & Wildlife regulations for fishing. Just click on each species for particulars: FWC - Saltwater Fishing Regulations There are also links to commercial limits.