Death in Cocos from shark attack

[WetPup]

I wonder what that comment says about dive training in the US to be honest. Are you not trained to be at least somewhat self sufficient? I mean criticise PADI all you want, but even a basic OW course in Australia hammered home that you need to be somewhat independent. Nobody else I've dived with from around the world seems to have those kind of expectations. I don't know where it comes from as I'm not familiar enough with the US dive industry. Thoughts?

 

[drrich2]

My impression on the matter, though shared in good faith, may or may not reflect reality well, and I’m speaking broadly, not just to diving. People training at the OW level get exposed to a lot of info., don’t retain it all, and I suspect many aren’t trained with tiger sharks in mind. Many will only dive in very benign conditions, or are expected to get further training before venturing into more adverse dive environments. While a person should be at least somewhat self-sufficient, yes, the importance of the buddy system is emphasized such that in discussions about solo diving on the forum I've seen every seasoned divers who haven't shaken off the indoctrination (not saying everyone should love solo).

I can say a lot of new OW graduates aren't ready to independently navigate, plan their own dives in much detail, & basically expect guide-led dives. I don't think anyone who's dove much in the Caribbean will argue I'm wrong about that.

Sometime between that & transitioning into more risky/challenging/difficult/adverse/'choose-your-preferred-adjective' dive environments, a diver needs to take more personal ownership of trip research and risk assessment.

Putting that into detailed real world practice isn't clear cut. It'd be interesting to hear in about a year whether new or more extensive 'shark encounter management' education has made its way into written or oral presentations with any of the Cocos live-aboards.

Richard.

 

[WetPup]

Putting that into detailed real world practice isn't clear cut. It'd be interesting to hear in about a year whether new or more extensive 'shark encounter management' education has made its way into written or oral presentations with any of the Cocos live-aboards.

Richard.

Admittedly I went back in 2013, but I do recall that in the roughly 36 hour boat trip out to Cocos there was a mandatory session on how the shark interactions work. What to do, not do, etc. I thought it was appropriate material. There will always be muppets who think they know better and ignore it, or don't pay attention. You can make divers sign off on all the agreements you want about their behaviour, but at the end of the day, you're diving with wild animals...S*** happens.

 

[wgw04024]

I'm going to expand just a bit on what Drrich2 said regarding training from my own perspective. I'd agree with wetput that OW courses in the US seem to not be at the level that when you're done, you are completely self sufficient. I know that' show I felt. I took one lake dive a year after OW, which went well, but certainly I was lacking lots of skills. I'm a big supporter of doing your AOW directly after OW. My next dive was in Key West and Key Largo using a different local dive shop than whom I used for OW. My instructor on that trip taught me so much, that in retrospect, it felt creepy how under prepared I had been after OW. I cannot put into words how lucky I feel for making that decision to go on that trip with those folks with basically no experience. Given how much info there is to absorb during OW, I'm not sure what the right answer is. Also, balancing what the general public can/will spend on instruction certainly plays a part. Lastly, I feel doing OW in more comfortable locals (I'm from Maine), certainly allows people to learn the basics in a more forgiving environment allowing them to focus on the pure fundamentals, without mixing in surge, current, low viz, and cold temps. My advice to anyone from up here since I became what I consider at least a competent diver, is to go to Key Largo to do their OW and AOW. Dive dive dive for a week!

 

[peeweediver]

We could create a completely separate discussion on OW training in the US. From info on this thread and articles, I don't think level of training or experience played any role in this tragic incident. Our LDS is going back to Cocos in August and we spoke at length about this last night. All are good to go and know the risks just as the Sea Hunter crew prepared us in 2016. As to training, I am so disgusted at what I see happening at our local quarry that passes for the 4 open water dives that I seriously continue to consider quitting teaching there because it's hard to stomach. It's all about the economics. Train 20 people a weekend. Do your surface interval floating above the platform, brief dive 2 or 4 while floating, go back down and do skills, swim around the platform as your "fun dive", come up and leave by 11:30 am after two dives. That's how you make money off of OW classes...cattle car training. I do 30-40 minute dives after skills or with skills built in based on how cold my students are. They see people leaving when we're on surface interval and wonder what's up. Why aren't they done? I do my best to explain the difference.
Anyway, the last 3 years has gotten much worse. From this, I just say, never assume anything about OW training. It can really suck.

Rob

 

[peeweediver]

PS: there are many great operations and instructors at our quarry that I have and continue to learn from. It's the two or three fast food McScuba drive through operations that I'm referring to. Back to sharks, Cocos and the Undersea Hunter, I do love them all and hope that this never happens again, understanding that nature does what it wants.

 

[Kay Dee]

I wonder what that comment says about dive training in the US to be honest. Are you not trained to be at least somewhat self sufficient? I mean criticise PADI all you want, but even a basic OW course in Australia hammered home that you need to be somewhat independent. Nobody else I've dived with from around the world seems to have those kind of expectations. I don't know where it comes from as I'm not familiar enough with the US dive industry. Thoughts?

While I admire the instructor/s you refer to, and others that try to instill same at such an early stage in ones diver training, it would be wrong to think ALL instructors in Oz are so diligent by any means! And that's a witnessed, more than once, FACT.

If you want(ed) a guaranteed pass then the word once was (and maybe still is), go take a course on the Great Barrier Grief, or a resort in Asia (that is, if you wanted a 'free pass' so to speak and didn't even know - or care much - of the shortcomings). Not all of operators course, but many. I had an instructor friend who worked for many years on 'The Grief' and basically if you failed a student in more than two courses where he worked, and it was one of the several major operators at the time, you lost your job (for some other obscure reason of course.) He eventually quit because he could no longer live with himself as he was passing people who were not only a danger to themselves, but others. Why, I saw with my own eyes two young ladies that had done OW in Thailand, and were doing AOW in a group with him, and they had never taken their masks off u/w, ever, nor could he get them to do so either, but still they passed.

Be that as it may, and back more or less on the training topic anyway, if not the Cocos incident, I also believe as Richard and peeweediver have inferred, that it is, in general, asking / expecting a bit (way to?) much of basic open water training for someone to come out of his / her first u/w course with any concept of self sufficiency, save relying on the (none too reliable at times) buddy system.

 

[dmaziuk]

While I admire the instructor/s you refer to, and others that try to instill same at such an early stage in ones diver training, it would be wrong to think ALL instructors in Oz are so diligent by any means!

And conversely, not all PADI instructors in the USofA are churning out muppets.

... but it's the students who are the real horror ...

 

[DanBMW]

I think that some are expecting too much from Basic and Open Water Instruction. That's all that they are is INSTRUCTIONS. You only get better with practice and that comes with multiple dives over time. Some get better quicker then others, but most take several years to really advance. The Basic and Open Water certifications are just the beginning and certifies you to keep learning.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

1) What would be the procedure to "re-open" the site of such an event to regular diving activities ?...I guess the Marine Park and maybe even Ministry need to validate the situation somehow before re-opening...would they send experienced parties to see "what happens if you dive" ?...would there be, maybe unbeknown to outsiders, attempts to remove animals ?...what do you do ?...just accept that an individual animal that may have experienced unwanted behavioral reinforcement by this attack is given a next chance to test it live seems to me something that should rather be tested under controlled conditions instead (as much as this is even possible )...??...there must be other similar cases of reference, eg from shark-surfer or shark-swimmer accidents, I guess...

2) What comes to my mind as well is that, as an operator, you may want to brief divers in much sterner ways about situations and behaviors they need to adopt in dive sites with a probability of "big three" encounters...sort of emergency procedure briefings...I must say that I never dived with the Undersea Hunter, so maybe they do that already, but I have dived in several places where we knew there would likely be (and there were)bulls, or tigers or oceanic whitetips and in most cases I just got descriptions that "there could be those indeed", not "procedure-under-attack" recommendations...I know that for many this is calculated risk they are well aware of (was for me) and they may even be considering it in part as they carry their cameras, sticks, etc...but for a diver, even an experienced one, but a rookie in terms of these animals, a lack of specific behavior instructions may be the missing element between a knee-jerk flight with consequences or a more adequate reaction...again, maybe all this is regular operating procedure somewhere, but I have not encountered it when it came to my own dives ...

Just to ask, do we know the animal in question received "unwanted behavioral reinforcement?" While we don't have an official breakdown of the injuries, the reports are pointing more towards severe lacerations, not bites being taken out. In that case, the shark didn't get fed, possibly got whacked a few times, and had its wounded prey item(s) yanked out of the water. I'd be curious to know if after that the shark would look at a diver and conclude "this food is problematic."