Death at Dutch Springs

[RJP]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no facts and don't pretend to. I offered up a "possible scenario" and was sure to indicate that's what it was as that is what the special rules of this forum dictate. I guess I fall under #1, but I don't see how that is unfortunate. I see that done all of the time in A&I. Hypothesizing as a whole should not be belittled. Trying to imply that you know more than you do perhaps should.

You actually fall into group 3, I think...

I was basing my entirely hypothetical theory upon a comment that Racerx9365 made in the very beginning and then deleted...it referenced that there was some rushing around prior to the dive, I believe. Then, S_brown, who seems to have at least a LITTLE knowledge of the situation mentioned that it would be "difficult to stay with your dive buddy in the dark, especially if you don't have a light". Just throwing a theory out there...

I could mention that Izzy might have been gored by a unicorn...

So a diver with no lights, an empty tank, with a buddy too far away, gored by a unicorn... is another "possible scenario."

---------- Post added September 21st, 2013 at 12:55 AM ----------

I guess I fall under #1, but I don't see how that is unfortunate. I see that done all of the time in A&I. Hypothesizing as a whole should not be belittled. Trying to imply that you know more than you do perhaps should.

Hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of evidence, utilized as a starting point for further investigation.

Speculation: the forming of a theory or conjecture without evidence.

Baseless: without foundation in fact.

Would seem that what typically goes on is more along the lines of "baseless speculation."

 

[chillyinCanada]

Hypothetically, I'm horrified if any of this baseless speculation turns out to be true. No light, overweighted, no air, = no buddy check, no self check, night diving without a light??and again buddy or fellow divers having tacitly gone along with that poor decision, not giving a modicum of extra care for him . . .

 

[RJP]

Don't worry, all of the the things that actually happened will be enough to horrify you. There's really no need to add made-up stuff to the list of senseless things that occurred here.

 

[Ayisha]

Since we're talking hypothetically, lets say in your haste to get in the water you accidentally strap on a nearly depleted tank and forget to check your pressure. Say the tank has enough air in it for a couple of breaths, but not enough to inflate your bc at depth, and say you were carrying a few extra pounds of equipment....at night....what might happen?

In the scenario above:

If your bc was already at least partially inflated, nothing would happen. Positive buoyancy would be established at the surface.
If you checked your air pressure before descending, nothing would happen. You would see the low pressure and not begin the dive.
If air pressure had been checked on the previous dive and the dive turned at a reasonable pressure, it would not have only "a couple of breaths".
If you have a redundant lift source since you're planning to carry more equipment than the lift capacity of your bc, nothing would happen.
It would require a few failures at various points for "something" to happen in the above scenario.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Don't worry, all of the the things that actually happened will be enough to horrify you. There's really no need to add made-up stuff to the list of senseless things that occurred here.

It was previous posts from which I lifted the horrifying speculative items. Dramatic analysis added by me.

How is it you know I'll be legitimately horrified over the actual events? Do you have speculative items to share?

 

[Craig66]

Although none of us have a right to know what happened it would be helpful if those that know could let us know the facts. I personally use the A&I forum as a learning forum even if the only lesson to be learned is that being an experienced diver not only doesn't protect you but can make it more likely that you will make bad choices because you believe that your experience will get you through.

What is definitely is not helpful or healthy is those that know, hinting at possible facts and scenarios.

If the reason why several weeks after the event there are still no official facts being released is on a legal basis then we need to reevaluate whether this forum is even worth having.


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[RJP]

If the reason why several weeks after the event there are still no official facts being released is on a legal basis then we need to reevaluate whether this forum is even worth having.

When have you ever seen "official facts being released" (whatever that means) after a death/incident? Much less just "several weeks" afterwards? I can think of less than a handful of incidents, worldwide, where results of any official investigation were made public, and those were typically up to a year or more afterwards.

 

[Craig66]

RJP, maybe official wasn't the right word. Nonetheless you know what I mean. Case in point, there is a poster in this forum who goes by the name of RJP, perhaps you know him. Generally speaking RJP is a credible source of information. RJP wrote:

Don't worry, all of the the things that actually happened will be enough to horrify you. There's really no need to add made-up stuff to the list of senseless things that occurred here.

Clearly RJP has information that although not "official" is accurate and yet he has chosen to hint at certain mistakes but as of yet has yet to give any real information that can help make sense of this accident and help us make sure that we are not victims if the same tragedy.



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[RJP]

RJP, maybe official wasn't the right word. Nonetheless you know what I mean.

When a person writes something, I assume they knew what they meant... and worded what they wrote accordingly. Not sure how I would know that you actually meant something different than what your wrote.

Clearly RJP has information that although not "official" is accurate and yet he has chosen to hint at certain mistakes but as of yet has yet to give any real information that can help make sense of this accident and help us make sure that we are not victims if the same tragedy.

I haven't hinted at anything in this thread. I was not present for the incident. Accordingly I have no first-hand information to share.

 

[openmindOW]

RJP, I'd like to ask you some questions. If you please, Sir.

Have you been to Dutch Springs since, July 1, 2013?

Do you occasionally dive Dutch?

Are you personally acquainted with anyone who works at Dutch springs?