Dear Instructors and Dive Professionals:

[MikeFerrara]

I appreciate the sentiment... but in reality it's not the agency that benefits. It's the diving students, instructors and community at large that get the real benies.

The agencies benefit but it's a side benefit. that's not, IMO, the reason that we do it. We do it to benefit each other and our students.

 

[UWSojourner]

There certainly are things that instructors discuss that they would never discuss in front of a potential student. I don't think that's any different than any other profession.

Define "potential student". If it means "potential customer" then I think you may be correct.

If it means student, then I think you are dead wrong. And the concept of some paternalistic instructor hiding what THEY consider potentially damaging information from poor little students is highly offensive. Arrgggggghhhh! How stinkin' arrogant.

 

[SDAnderson]

Define "potential student". If it means, potential customer then I think you may be correct.

If it means student, then I think you are dead wrong. And the concept of some paternalistic instructor hiding what THEY consider potentially damaging information from the poor little students is highly offensive. Arrgggggghhhh! How stinkin' arrogant.

Sorry you're offended. It's not as exciting behind the closed door as some might think and it does serve a valid purpose - the free exchange of ideas by a specialized group with needs and abilities beyond the experience of most folks. If you've got a pro card, all you have to do to be admitted is ask. If you don't have a pro card, you'll just have to trust me that the conversations back there don't all revolve around you and that your presence is unwarranted.

So after a month and a half of inactivity on this thread, you just couldn't hold it in any more and had to fire this salvo off? A lot of heat for what seems like a relatively benign subject, eh?

One thing I'd like to add - Mike Ferrara is about as direct as you could ever dream of being and you can bet your milk money that what he said is what he meant.

 

[UWSojourner]

So after a month and a half of inactivity on this thread, you just couldn't hold it in any more and had to fire this salvo off?

First time I read the tread, first time I responded. Didn't know the dates.

I responded the the IDEA (not MIKE) that information might (for a students own good) be kept from them - not the idea of a special forum. You guys can huddle all you want.

I think you misunderstood my thought, and only picked up the frustration.

 

[Kim]

I notice that there are no posts showing in the instructors forum! i suppose it's because of the privacy issues! I have to say I wonder about this need for instructor secrecy. While doing my IANTD Overhead Environment with JC in Tioman I was asked by a French instructor what we were doing with the reels and line (blindfolded - line tied off on bushes, trees, tables etc.) His home base was Sipidan (even turtles die in the cave there!) - he had never even seen a cave reel - let alone use one - and he guided novices into that overhead environment almost everyday.

I know that there are really good instructors out there - JC is definitely one of them - I also know that I wouldn't even want some of them as my buddy (go figure - for me it's my life - and yours - we're talking about here) - I hope I'm missing something of the point here - that there might be some real reason for the secrecy - and in your posts in this forum I hope you can find - and expose - the instructors who shouldn't be..... (Sounds a bit like government to me though). I am a teacher - so I know about instruction - but I'm 53 years old so I don't really see the point of doing DM/Instructor (I have Rescue) although I'm quite sure I could do it. I suppose (as a teacher) it must simply equate to the staff meetings that we have in school - but as a diver I am very curious about what instructors might deem secret enough to discuss in private! (I really hope it's not things like how to use a cave/wreck reel!!!)

 

[MikeFerrara]

Define "potential student". If it means "potential customer" then I think you may be correct.

If it means student, then I think you are dead wrong. And the concept of some paternalistic instructor hiding what THEY consider potentially damaging information from poor little students is highly offensive. Arrgggggghhhh! How stinkin' arrogant.

Sorry I didn't see and respond to this sooner.

The instructor forum is just a place for instructors to discuss methods, swap stories and what not. It has nothing to do with information that would be potentially damaging to any one.

Keeping non-pros out of the forum has more to do with keeping the discussions on track than secrecy. Although, divemasters and instructors are required to disclose their real identities and instructor numbers to get into the forum and some probably don't wish that information to be made public. This disclosure is required so their pro-status can be verified through the agency that they're with.

I notice that you don't use your real name here on the board.

There isn anything arrogant about wanting to discuss instruction issues with other instructors. If I want to talk about plumbing, I'll talk to a plumber. If I want to talk about dive training I'll talk to some one who trains divers. BTW, this level of communications between dive pros isn't even something that the agencies do a good job of providing.

Also note that the instructors on the board are very active out here on the public forum also.

What is your real problem with this?

 

[kd5izq]

Understandable. I'll see you there soon. Thanks for the quick reply.

I second GratefulDiver. I can't wait to get there. Almost have classroom finished up, and even have a few of the practicals out of the way.

 

[SDAnderson]

I am a teacher - so I know about instruction.

You're a teacher - ever been to an in-service seminar? Ever been to an in-service where your students were participants? Same difference in the I2I forum. Excluding the non-professional community from the forum really just isn't nearly as exciting as some folks seem to persist in imagining. It's done to facilitate communication between professionals, that's all.


Many of the topics are pretty mundane and have little or no relevance for students - the intricacies of leading store trips is always popular and some of the insurance threads can be exhilarating. Perhaps because the forum is comprised of professionals, there is a minimum of agency bashing. I have yet to see a thread about training Chester to pull the strings on bikinis but I'm hopeful.

:cheeky:
Relax, enjoy the parts of the board that are open to you and if you need something to squabble over, head for the DIR forum - you'll learn more about diving over there.

 

[MikeFerrara]

(I really hope it's not things like how to use a cave/wreck reel!!!)

Why?

But no. The tech forums are the place for that and they're open to all.

 

[divemed06]

Hi there...I'm glad to hear you folks have this forum. I'm not an instructor nor do intend to be, but it's good to know that some of you are willing to share good and bad experiences, as well as knowledge with each other, to help people like me (students). Furthermore, I don't see why some people have a problem with an instructor only forum...coaches have closed door meetings, teachers and professors don't normally allow students to attend there conferences and when was the last time George W. invited you to a meeting at the Pentagon...like it or not, dive instructors are a distinct bunch in the diving world (and yes, I do recognize that some of them...well...suck, for lack of a better word). Enjoy your forum and hope you all keep improving!