Dear DM's around the world...

[KeithG]

Dear DM: Hi! We will NOT be following you. Have a great dive!

 

[Peter69_56]

It depends on the pre dive discussions and a good understanding by the dive company of all divers requirements, as well as the diver communicating their issues, needs etc. Now if the DM is given the responsibility to establish knowledge about the divers then they should as part of their job. If however as in some countries, they are just a dive guide and nothing more (in the eyes of the company), the diver had better consider being responsible enough to either look after themselves, or be big enough to say "this sucks" and abort the dive or not go at all.

I have seen lazy divers who espouse years of experience and then are so bad that they cannot even assemble their gear. An ex US coastguard guy was an example of this. I was shocked. He was so big on telling everyone how he was ex coast guard and many years experience, and yet was a very incompetent diver. Certainly one who set off alarm bells. Perhaps one who complains about the poor service, after espousing his experience and status.

Others who are air pigs and then expect others to provide air so they can stay down longer, dont ask for an additional tank or larger tank but simply expect others to take the hit for their bad diving (as distinct from those who are inexperienced and have not yet mastered the air usage skills). These are some of the issues DM's face. New divers all going in different directions during low vis and ignore signals and agreed dive plan, who do you follow and assist???

As I always say and believe, I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR MY SAFETY IN THE FIRST INSTANCE. Thats my attitude in diving. I work in a high risk industry (not diving), and I have the approach I am the one who has a vested interest in me. When I dive, I dive with an attitude of if I get into trouble I am the only person who will rescue me. If someone helps me thats a bonus.

On the other side of the coin I will assist any diver if I can help, either pre dive or during the dive, even if I am not the DM. However its poor if I push myself onto someone because I think they are not up to speed with something, as they have the right to refuse too. I can only offer. In one instance I could see a young girl struggling with getting ready and got my head snapped off after asking if she needed help. Clearly she was struggling but apparently didnt wish to indicate she needed help. All I could do was watch and keep an eye on her during the dive. Some people just dont want help and I wont force my opinions on others.

So thats the other side of being a DM. As I said before not all DM are good or all bad, and not all divers are good or all bad. Only paint the bad with black paint, please leave the rest alone from any spillage or overspray.

 

[billt4sf]

Dear Divers,

The person responsible for your safety in the first instance is you. Never forget that.

Dear Bill

Please do not lump all DM in the one basket, some are very good and conscientious and others not so much. Would it be fair to say all OW divers are useless, I suggest not and yet your post suggests by its title that ALL WORLD WIDE DM's are less than competent. Note I say suggests or perhaps implies.

I understand what you are probably trying to say and agree in general terms. I have witnessed it as well, but far be it for me to imply that all DM are bad. I am one and I am very aware of keeping visual contact with those I dive with, also with helping new divers or inexperienced divers who stay silent. I however find offense that your post implies DM world wide dont make the grade.

I would also differentiate between dive guides and dive masters. Also how a Dive Guide/Master in say Bali operates can be different to one in USA or OZ. Based simply on the local business expectation and how they run their business and team. It should be based on a standard but sometimes its based on cost and simplification, which is not the way its supposed to be run, but thats different countries and local standards.

Still my disappointment with your post is not that some DM are sub standard, but that by implication you lump us all down to the lowest common denominator.

Of course not. We have had some great DM's everywhere we have dived. More good than bad.

- Bill

 

[scagrotto]

its title that ALL WORLD WIDE DM's

Reading is so hard, isn't it?

 

[Peter69_56]

Reading is so hard, isn't it?

I stand corrected "Dear DM's around the world" rather than my quote of ALL WORLD WIDE DM's.

However I stand by my comments relating to "Dear DM's around the world" which suggests applying to DM's around the world! Not some but "DM's" thus the message for all DM's, as if we have all failed Bill. I know of a number of DM's who immediately took umbrage to the original post. We felt offended that it appeared we were all lumped in the all DM's are less than capable basket, however I tried to give Bill the opportunity to clarify his comment and he gracefully has.

Your comment however is nothing more than a smart remark and adds no value to the conversation.

 

[KeithG]

My response to such a DM/Guide is to simply let them go. I find that they usually eventually figure out I am no longer with them and they return and from that point on things usually get better. Not always, but trying to keep up just reinforces the behaviour.

I assume you warn them ahead of time? Otherwise that behaviour may be considered a little passive aggressive?

If you warn the DM ahead of time before the dive then everything should be fine.

We always proactively tell the DM that we are slow and have no intention of trying to keep up (these are not drift dives...). We tell them our planned profile and confirm that they have no issues with us not being part of the great cluster. This attitude has worked everywhere.

Note that for drift dives, we do follow the cluster. And generally hate it...

We once had a non drift dive converted into a drift dive underwater. The DM swam by with a sign board that said "drift dive". We (thought sh*t!) and signaled OK. Sigh. Funny thing was that about 45 minutes in we saw 3 divers finning back towards the entry point as fast as they could. Seems like the DM did not get everybody on on the same page....

 

[Centrals]

Almost all my recreational dives are guided dive and the only exceptions were in GBR. I can fully understand the DM predicament when some divers insist to do their own things!
Interestingly most of my tec dives are non-guided.

 

[TMHeimer]

Almost all my recreational dives are guided dive and the only exceptions were in GBR. I can fully understand the DM predicament when some divers insist to do their own things!
Interestingly most of my tec dives are non-guided.

The ONE TIME I was in a guided tropical dive (Panama), one of the divers in the "line" screwed things up by breaking the line and disappearing, so I can also understand the predicament DMs can be in guiding dives. Too bad all these places can't be like the US and Canada--dive by yourself (with buddy?) and be responsible for yourselves. I can only imagine the situations that arise with guided dives, particularly if the divers are vaction divers once/twice a year.

 

[Centrals]

From my own experience over last 20yrs diving around SE Asia, some divers should never be allowed to leave home let alone in a foreign country!!! To call them irresponsible is an understatement.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Without a shadow of a doubt, there are some guides who have convinced themselves that they are "diving gods" and think that the best way to dive is to cover as much ground as possible and that their guests will be impressed by their underwater tricks.

Equally, there are guests, who because they have always dived as paying customers, have convinced themselves that they are the worlds best divers, when in fact they are anything but. A guide isn't going to turn around to you and tell you how bad you actually are to your face (what they say between themselves is a different matter)

As someone who has now commercially guided as well as been on dive holidays being guided I have some appreciation of both sides.

Operators (more LOB and resorts than day boats) try for the most part to group divers of similar experience, capabilities and interests together. Of course initially this can only be done by going on what the customer tells them. How many people over exaggerate their experience and capabilities?

It takes 2 or 3 dives for a guide to get in tune with their customers (their comfort, their gas consumption etc). There has to be give and take on both sides. Occasionally someone with a camera is put with a group who are not that interested in photography, because that persons abilities may better match that group (say advanced divers with good consumption) This one person maybe upset that they don't get enough time on one critter getting the perfect picture (and they have paid for the experience) similarly the rest of the group may not want to hang around constantly, again they've paid too.

Some people almost insist on being the last to kit up or get on/off the boat thinking the world revolves around them. There is a difference between these and people who are having problems with their kit or are just slow and cautious. I don't want to rush people's pre dive preparation. Equally I need to not keep other people hanging around with their kit on getting hot.

So there must be a balancing act.

No Guide wants to have to tell clients off, nor do trip leaders, I've seen it happen on occasion and it's more uncomfortable for the Dive Pro than the customer, but needs must if the customer is affecting other people's dive experience through their selfishness and thoughtlessness (rather than inexperience)

On holiday I try to make the guides job as easy as possible, generally we get given a great deal of latitude once they've seen how we dive and our consumption. We might be a distance from the guide but we can see them and they can see us and there is mutual trust. I'll go with the flow as a group, my wife and I both like big current and are happy to swim through it -others not so much so we go with the majority

If we have an issue we will have a quiet word, only once did we need to and the guide was new and inexperienced.

So from both sides (IMHO) there needs to be some mutual respect and time taken for both sides to gain each other's trust and respect.

A quote from my friend (not sure of the origin)

"There is always one Idiot on a dive boat, if you don't know who it is, then it's probably you!"