DCI and the perils of diving in a mixed EAN/Air Group

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Alan, for what its worth, my opinion.

I also use 2 computers, but both run the same algorythim. Now if I set them differently due to error, I always use the most conservative unless an emergency forces me to surface. I think your real mistake was not to do deco time on the conservative one (along with not stopping to prevent embarrasment). Even though you may not have deco cert, it doent prevent you from doing deco (or lets say a longer safety stop), just to be sure.

Also I have found that many recreational computers seem to be very agressive in their algorythims, compared to tech computers, so more care warrented there as well. Thus if you push it, the risks seem somewhat higher.

I had a diver come up without completing deco obligations the other day (due to communication confusion between him and I). I made him go straight back down again to complete his time. He may have gotten away with it but why risk it? Best to just complete it.

In your case, clearly you paid a penalty for it. If it happens again or you get a skin bend for no apparent reason, get onto pure oxygen as quick as possible, for say 2 hrs, in most cases that resolves the issue. Even if you dont have pure oxygen, a nitrox mix helps. My wife gets bent easily and we have used 50Nx and it cleared the symptoms within 30 min (yes she has a tiny PFO thats not able to be fixed, doc says its so small he doesnt consider it to be a PFO).

Its easy for us to point out the obvious after the fact, and clearly you know you made a judgement error, so just learn from it and move on.

Its easy to have one computer set different from the other, or having two different brands can make them read differently. In all those cases I would always take the most conservative. All my computers are Shearwater, with the exception of my older Oceonic Pro Plus 2 which I use for recreational diving, along with my Petrel. The Petrel being a tech computer always gives me some deco when the PP2 says I have NDL time left, so I always do deco when this happens.

Another point is to always remember that if you get into deco, just follow your computer. I get annoyed when Dive Instructors bang on so much about not doing deco, that the student fears deco that much that they will often surface rather than doing deco as the computer says, because of the fear of doing something they have been told not to do. Like its going to kill them if they do it. We shouldn't encourage deco in recreational diving, nor normalise it, but rec divers should have a basic understanding of it so if they stuff up and have a deco obligation then they follow their computer, and not just avoid doing it.

Anyway I am glad you are ok and have learned a lesson without too much harm to you. Enjoy your diving.
 
There it is, death by embarrassment

@happy-diver hits the nail on the head. What more needs to be said?

You are the diver conducting your dive, when its time to come up or not is the individual diver's call. Buddies can follow, wait or not they are conducting their dive.
 
Do longer safety stops too. Increase from 3 to 5 and importantly from your stop go to surface as slowly slowly slowly as you can.
 
"Request that the dive guide/leader uses the same gas mix as the most restrictive person in the group (might get some blowback on that)."

This seems like a completely unreasonable request. Multiple dives for a week around the world, get nitrox. What was your reasoning for NOT being nitrox certified before the trip?
 
Causes - As no one else was diving on air I was diving virtually to the no-deco limit on every dive .
I didn't do the deco stop as advised by the back-up computer so as not to appear like I couldn't read a computer even though I took the deco alarm on board (!).
I found that the the P-value on my main computer was set to P0 while the back-up was set to the more conservative P2.
Takeaways - Be very careful about repetitive diving in a mixed air group where you are the only air breather and there is no other check on the performance of your dive computer. Request that the dive guide/leader uses the same gas mix as the most restrictive person in the group (might get some blowback on that). If you have to be the 'tail end charlie' set the P value on your computer to the most conservative value and don't repetitively dive close to limits . If you have more than one computer decide on actions in the event of alarms etc before you get in the water. Get EAN/Nitrox qualified so you always have the option.

Safe Diving. Alan

IMO, The biggest takeaway to me (that I did not see mentioned) is never under any circumstances, ever skip a decompression obligation from any computer.

I always wear two computers and I intended for one to be a backup to the other. They are different computers running slightly different algorithms. Depending on the repetitive dives profiles sometimes one is more conservative that the other and in other cases it is the opposite. I always follow both of them. I never violate the deco obligation of either one.

At first it was a bit annoying to have two different computer with different algorithms (the new one is a Shearwater Perdix and the old one a Zeagle N2ition), but now I actually like that they are different. I feel it is more conservative if I meet the NDL and/or Deco obligation of both of them.

It is not uncommon that one of them will go into deco (Even when I am using Nitrox with the rest of the group). I don’t want to cut my dive short so I just meet all the deco obligations and then I do the safety stop.

Some divers seem to have an objection to staying in the water (at 20ft to 10ft, 6m to 3m) any longer than the minimum required and that is a problem. If you want to avoid DCS do very long decompression/ safety stops. Remember, all dives are decompression dives. It doesn’t matter if you have a deco stop obligation or not, you still have to out-gas (decompress). Even if you are under the NDL, you still have to decompress (out-gas).

It is safer (and under some models also faster) to out-gas in 10 ft to 15 ft of water depth, that on the surface.

Note: this is my opinion, but it is based on several conversations that I have had with at least three hyperbaric medicine researchers from DAN. They all agree that the emphasis by many divers to do the shortest stops possible (as required) is probably not the best approach.

There is a fear of deco stops in some diving communities and the industry that is totally counterproductive. All dives should include deco stops, but some divers are only comfortable calling them safety stops. In the real world they are the same... it is just a continuum.

YMMV

And yes, get Nitrox.

I will get of my soap box now.
 
@AlanS

If your profile is correct, how can you have so many dives and yet not be Nitrox certified?
 
I get annoyed when Dive Instructors bang on so much about not doing deco, that the student fears deco that much that they will often surface rather than doing deco as the computer says because they fear deco.

I completely agree - the point of not going into deco is stressed so much that many bad decisions are being made as a result. I've experienced boat briefings from more pragmatic ops where the point has been explicitly made 'don't deliberately go into deco, but if you do, follow your computer and meet the obligations' rather than the seemingly more popular 'if you go into deco the world will end'. It would benefit everybody if this small change in phrasing/intent were more universal.

It would also seem prudent that when relying solely on a piece of technology for ones safety one should know exactly what happens when a warning/process-change threshold is violated. The last thing you want to be is sitting there worrying about how you just screwed up and suddenly have your computer giving a bunch of signals and messages you've never seen before. I would advocate that everyone should take their computer just a bit into deco - in friendly conditions - see what happens and then do what it says to get familiar with the process of ascending safely. Perhaps this should be part of AOW level training. It's going to happen at some point - why not plan for it?
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. Itchy skin disappeared within about an hour or so and rash by the end of the day.
My approach to computers is a bit like the man with two watches never quite knowing the time, so I prefer to use one as the dive computer rather than consult both during a dive.
I've done liveaboards in the past where the EAN/Air split was about 60:40 and there was a 'Nitrox group' and an 'Air group' and this sort of thing wasn't an issue but the trend is definitely towards Nitrox (obviously). You could argue tour operators should simply say people will be diving on Nitrox (and put headline prices up accordingly!) to avoid having groups where only one person is on air, bound to be the case more and more . Lesson learned, off to (finally) get my Nitrox qualification.

A
 
It's always a good idea to extend the safety stop (gas permitting) on every dive by as long as what you consider comfortable bearing in mind weather / sea conditions when returning to the boat during periods of multiple days diving.

As I've gotten older I've moved over to carrying an S30 with EAN50, and since most of my local dives are square profile, I switch to EAN50 at 20m (ish) which allows me to be a lot "cleaner" when I do surface compared to the other divers on the boat who are using EAN32.

Good luck with your Nitrox course :thumb:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom