Dangerous Divers

[buckedoff96]

I"m type 1 diabetic on an insulin pump. I checked in with my docs and diabetic nurses before even starting the training. I'm still new to diving but not new to diabetes. My dive buddies right now are my girlfriend and my dive instructor. My girlfriend is a nurse and trust me she knows when or if something isn't 100% with me.
Reading through the replies to my posts I understand that there will be places (like Australia) I'll never be able to dive. I accept that and that's life.
I read through all the DAN stuff about diving and diabetes and being upfront with dive buddies is pretty important. Hell as a diabetic I was always taught to let co workers etc know about it just in case something happens.

 

[David P]

I dove with someone who I thought was a good diver, I then saw them with just a little bit of stress and they literally fell apart. So much so that I would consider them a dangerous diver. I started speaking with other people about this said diver, and started hearing absolute horror stories! This person now has been banned from certain boats (not necessarily because he is a bad diver, but he is also a person not to be trusted), dive shops, groups of divers. It was said that the diver decided to become an independent scuba instructor, when other instructors heard this, formal letters were sent to the certifying agencies that he is dangerous, and the local course directors were informed. Mr Diver likes to say that they are certified by and Underwater Exploration agency. During a class (this is when the stress came to him) The instructor told him he had no situational awareness and was dangerous and would not be certified. Now people in the agency say he will NEVER be certified by them...This person like to think that he is an experience, well liked name in the So Cal scuba comunity, except for new divers in one local dive club, he is pretty much black balled. This might be hard, but honestly I feel it is best. He literally sent one diver to the hospital, another new diver who was having "issues" under water he swam up to her, fully inflated her bc, and let her cork! When you are dealing with someone like this, I think it is best to get the word out.

 

[ONESPEED]

If you knew of a local diver who is dangerous, would you warn others about him/her?

Yes, and I have.

 

[ReefGuy]

This is a tough issue. Depending on why you think they are dangerous and how you share your thoughts, you may become the diver everyone avoids. You should discuss the issue with other divers. At some point, discuss your issues with the "dangerous diver". Maybe this is an misunderstanding. Maybe the "dangerous diver" will change. Either way, I feel everyone should be aware. If you lack confidence with any diver, you should not dive with them.

I agree here wholeheartedly.

I had an issue with an AI. I was diving on a boat that was chartered by my LDS. So we had a group of 20 divers who knew each other on the boat. The AI leading my group of four divers was on nitrox 28 and dove a profile for nitrox. The rest of his group was on air. Two of the group, (his son and his son's friend) were just OW certified using gauges. I used an air computer so I was aware we were into deco. The dive was on the U352, depth around 90-115. Since the entire boat started their dives around the same time, you would think we would have come up with the entire group. We started our ascent roughly five minutes after the rest of the boat. We were on the wreck, everyone else was on the hang line. That should have indicated we were longer than everyone else. My computer was 4 minutes over the NDL when I got the AI's attention to tell him I was ascending without him. He brought the rest of the group up, passing me on the anchor line. My computer wanted 30 ft/min ascent. They were faster than 60 ft/min.
Luckily, no one was hurt.

When we got on the boat, I mentioned I was 4 minutes over and I was ten feet shallower, he indicated he had 6 minutes more bottom time. Another instructor reminded him he was on nitrox, extending his bottom time but not his sons, how was on air. He seemed to be not concerned. To me, this is a diver to avoid. Even scarier, he is an AI. Following this and other incidents, I suspect the shop would not support him becoming an instructor. I have not asked but I wonder if I ended his career. This diver has asthma, dives with an inhaler incase he gets an attack. The prior day, he did not fully open his tank, at 20 feet it was hard to breath. He surfaced, pulled the inhaler out of his BC, took a hit and started to descend. The boat captain had a tough time getting him back in the boat before the captain advised him he could not dive. The same diver has lied about his asthma condition to get a doctor to clear him for diving.

I ask you, should anyone dive with this guy? Only if you are experienced and setup to dive solo.

Sorry for the long post. You are not the first to be concerned by a diver, you will not be the last. I would talk it out. Don't hide your concerns.

Tom

This is a perfect example. You see a dangerous diver here. I see several. It is not safe or prudent to make a 90-115' dive right after open water. It also is not prudent to allow yourself to go into deco when you have not been trained for it. Also, last I checked, asthema is a contradiction to diving (although I am aware of the debate on this).

Please don't take this as a slam. It's not, but it certainly would have sent up major red flags to me had I been present.

 

[String]

The UKSDMC certainly disagrees and I know of several diabetic divers who are well-controlled, safe divers.

UKSDMC diver information- diabetes and diving study

Australia has far stricter medical laws though. Similar to and in some cases more strict than HSE.

I can think of several people diving here who have blatantly lied on the medical form. I really dislike self certification - since it was introduced there are a lot more people diving who shouldn't be and a lot more incidents of medical problems in the water as a result.

 

[ladycute1]

Australia has far stricter medical laws though. Similar to and in some cases more strict than HSE.

I can think of several people diving here who have blatantly lied on the medical form. I really dislike self certification - since it was introduced there are a lot more people diving who shouldn't be and a lot more incidents of medical problems in the water as a result.

Maybe it's just my Yankee persnickety-ness -- But I really don't want someone else deciding if I "should" be diving. I make decisions for myself -- understanding the risks and ready to accept the consequences. Yes, I know.... my decision may have an impact on others -- they are free to choose not to dive with me if they are concerned about my abilities.

 

[marksm]

I have dove with dangerous divers and told them so immediately after the dive. It doesn't do much good to hide it or whisper it around. Have the discussion in private. Some have listened. Some didn't know better and were grateful. Some ignored me and I don't dive with them. There is nothing that pleases me more then to have a new diver ask me to explain the "safety" reasons for why we do certain things certain ways.

I have been a dangerous diver. I have had others correct me. I felt hurt but I got over it really quick. Discussing fears and problems immediately after a dive is, imho, the best course of action. Just the other day, I missed a double arrow in a cave, it took me 200 feet to realize it. As much as I hated admitting it, I did so after the dive. Two things happened. First, someone on the team had noticed that I missed it and was glad that I noticed and said something post dive because they had doubts about my commitment to safety. Second, on the next three days of dives, my team was merciless about pointing out double arrows every time we came across them. I became a better diver.

As I have progressed through various levels of training from OW to OWI to Full Cave to CCR, I realized more and more ways I could screw the pooch if I messed up. Most agencies don't "scare" you enough with details during OW training. Not enough situational information to allow us to make the best decisions for ourselves and our buddies if need be. Sometimes the problem of dangerous divers is just a lack of information.

I have one friend who began diving gung ho, dangerous, and fool hardy. He was very stubborn and difficult to correct. I had to give him articles, statistics, studies, and examples to get him turned around.

Now that he too, has progressed through higher levels of training, he often shakes his head at his earlier behaviors. And now, he is one of the best OW instructors I know. He will only teach the "old fashioned" way of 6-8 weeks of pool and classroom. He uses the time to create competent, well-informed, and safer divers. If no one would have talked to him, where would he and his students be?

Sadly, if you are an instructor in the US, you risk a lot in the way of lawsuits when you allow someone to dive who is not mentally or physically ready. Just being the "professional" in a group of friends puts you at risk even if you are not the official DM. Courts have recently decided that the risk waivers we sign do not prevent the family of the victim from suing. As sad as that is, it means sometimes I have chosen not to get wet with a group that has a reckless diver.

One last thought. There are a lot of ways to be dangerous in the water. Often, it is one of those "I know it when I see it" circumstances. Or it is the post-mortem report that makes us shake our head in disbelief at the apparent disregard for safety or protocol. As some of the examples have been pointed out in this thread, blind faith in your dive leader or the "trust me" diver have resulted in many casualties. Who is more dangerous in this circumstance? In this Type A sport, there are a lot of b,c,d,and e's that are afraid to speak up. We need to encourage them to do so.

We have an ethical and legal responsibility to talk to the "dangerous" diver.

I hope this made sense.

 

[Kevfin]

When you are dealing with someone like this, I think it is best to get the word out.

It's interesting, especially in SoCal, how quickly the word spreads. Thank goodness that it happens in these type of cases too.

 

[cowdog77]

" i took myself out of the water due to obesity and lost about 100lbs before i allowed myself into the water. was i a danger to myself, yes i considered it so, was i a danger to my buddy, possibliy if a rescue was required and they would ahve slipped a disc trying to haul my big butt outta the water (still got aways to go but getting there)."
_________________________
You were gracious and showed an unselfish attitude. I only wish the 200 lb lady my fireman nephew tried to haul thru a stairwell in a fire had the same attitude...he's pounding nails now cause he blew out his back saving her large rear end.

 

[PaulSmithTek]

Anytime I can keep someone from possibly dieing or getting injured for sure I would say something.