Dangerous Divers

[ShakaZulu]

You guys also have to remember, that before the days of internet diving, there was divers diving with j-valves and it was considered safe....it's all a matter of perspective, we have all done some really stupid things in the past. You live, you learn to dive another day....

 

[ZzzKing]

You guys also have to remember, that before the days of internet diving, there was divers diving with j-valves and it was considered safe....it's all a matter of perspective, we have all done some really stupid things in the past. You live, you learn to dive another day....

That dude in the photo is obviously dangerous. He is wearing his mask on his forehead. No way you should dive with him.

 

[john56]

With divers who are being idiots, I think it's reasonable for demonstrably more experienced divers - and certainly for dive leaders or instructors - to have a quiet word about the diver's actions. The 'dangerous' diver might learn something, or might be able to present a reasonable argument as to why they dive as they do (in which case, hey, we're all different, you don't have to follow them), or might just tell you where to go - in which case, I guess you can now avoid diving with them or tell others about them and have a clear conscience.

As a former dangerous diver, I appreciated the folks who took me aside and quietly told me that I was going to hurt myself (and possibly a buddy as well) if I continued to conduct my dives as I had been doing. It turned out that having lots of C-cards didn't mean that I knew everything; they just made me think I knew everything.

Fortunately, between the advice I received on boats from more knowledgeable divers and the shop employee who recommended me to an invitation-only wreck diving course (by telling the instructor that I would kill myself if the instructor didn't take me on as a student) I was able to overcome most of my dangerous habits, and am now merely an annoynance to dive with...

 

[jim T.]

Excellent post GrimSleeper and John 56. I agree 100% with your statements/advice.
It becomes quickly apparent when someone isn't EVER going to be open to advice or politely and privately stated constructive criticism or amend their dangerous practices. Then warning others away from them (or reporting them to their agency if they're instructors) is perhaps the next appropriate step.

I'm still (and always will be) open to and receiving plenty of advice and c.c. and only appreciate it as it helps me to improve my techniques, safety and awareness.

Those people who perpetually carry a chip on their shoulder and don't seem to
understand or appreciate the value of mentoring usually remain dangerous to themselves and others.

It's always a hard call between exposing oneself to slander/defamation of character suits, lack of concrete evidence, inter agency politics (?) etc. and trying to protect others.

At the very least, we can certainly warn that specific diver that their current practices are dangerous and offer mentoring advice.

On the other hand dept.:
In a recent DVD release, I saw Lamar Hires with his mask on his forehead! I feel SO much better now about my own
mask placement

 

[nereas]

OK ... since we're going to resurrect this post, let's clarify something ...

Nowhere did Ms. A say or imply that any of the divers she mentioned were dangerous.

Some of y'all seem to be reading things into her post that simply aren't there.


This is a question ... basically pointing out that "dangerous" means different things to different people.


These are examples of people she knows that "might" be considered dangerous, depending on how you define the term.


This is Oz speak for "I prefer to mind my own business".


Same question as she opened with ... the implication being that it'll mean different things to different people.

My take is that she's not "outing" anyone ... she's telling us that before we judge someone as dangerous, we might want to give some thought to what that term really means.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled digression about diabetes and diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

My thinking exactly, as well, that if we are going to resurrect/dredge-up this post ...

We know of a dangerous tech instructor, and there are 2 divers in our dive club who are currently taking courses from him. We (techdivers in the club) cautioned them about the instructor, whom we consider to be somewhat of a rogue. At first they doubted our reservations. Then, after they all got lost together with him on a training dive, they came back to our next club meeting with a different look on their faces.

As a result they are taking their tech training very seriously, and being completely responsible for themselves, rather than relying solely on the judgment of the tech instructor. This is ideal. Everyone should learn this.

I consider him to be dangerous simply because his protocols are his own, and they are not taught by any particular agency. He came up with them by himself. They are optimistic and aggressive protocols, designed to shorten deco times and to abbreviate normal procedures.

After our friends earn their trimix cards, we in the club plan to take them diving with us and re-teach them the more conservative procedures which we follow in our club.

 

[JRScuba]

That dude in the photo is obviously dangerous. He is wearing his mask on his forehead. No way you should dive with him.

That is the MOF distress signal.......LOL

 

[buckedoff96]

wow, I found this thread looking for info on diabetes and diving. Simply made a comment to her post. More directly to the quote "i also know one instructor that is an insulin dependant diabetic and in our country they shouldnt even be diving let alone teaching"
I agree completly to the fact of letting the lead and buddy know about my diabetes. I talked in length with my diabetic nurse and the docs before training. So maybe it may be a good idea to start another thread about diabetes and diving LOL

 

[jim T.]

I dive with two diabetics, and one hydrophobic person. I have no issues diving with them.
One one hand, they have more dive experience than I do. On the other, if they are honest about their issues and what behaviors I should expect from them and what to specifically do if there is a problem, I am willing to be their buddy.

As an example, when I asked the hydrophobic diver, what should I expect if they should
"start freaking out", they said that they don't panic and maul their buddy, they just indicate that they want/need to surface NOW please. Our dives together have been uneventful, are
non deco dives and at least so far, as not been an issue. Just having a sympathetic buddy who they know accepts their issues, so far has relieved the stress enough that nothing untoward has occured on our dives. I wouldn't want to go deeper than 60', maybe, with them, so I have my own criteria...
With the diabetic divers, I interview them concerning what sort of medications they take,
how to recognize symptoms/problems and what actions to take. I also limit dives to about 60' with them, shore dives only.

I'm starting to insist that a new buddy do an OOA drill with me in shallow water before we
do our lst dives together. It gives me some measure of how that person will react under stress and task loading. I try to get them to do this on subsequent dives as well. It seems to be the best I can do to see if they'll be likely to be there for me if need be.

I also solo dive familiar sites (so guess I'm a dangerous diver) from time to time and carry a pony bottle or dive doubles for redundancy. so I try to be self reliant too.

Perhaps it's because I was a Special Education teacher for years that I feel more accepting of divers with health issues or feel that I can recognize whether something may become a dangerous situation before it does. Well...only time will tell for certain.

 

[Teamcasa]

Jim T makes some great points.

There are dangerous, reckless, ignorant and just plain stupid divers. I, at one time or another fell into all of these categories. Now much older and hopefully wiser, have grown out of my youthful recklessness, experienced my way out of ignorance and matured past stupidity. I pass on dangerous situations now altogether.

I have no problem diving with people who are honest with me about their experience and other physical limitations or unique gear issues. If I know about a existing condition, I can honestly go over the what if’s prior to diving.

People I won’t dive with. Dishonest, arrogant or reckless. Hopefully, most of these traits are revealed during the pre-dive briefing.

 

[Laustimus]

My best friends girlfriend was diagnosed with MS last year and still dives plus she is trying to talk him into getting certified. He is a type 1 diabetic. I don't know how the hell I'm gonna talk him out of it if she pushes for him to get it.

I just hope he asks his doc's opinion and for auth instead of just lying on the medical form.