scottfiji
Contributor
Ahken, don't use CWB when using the internal flash, just use auto white balance. Use CWB just for ambient light shots.
Scott
Scott
Custom white balance
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Hi Scott,
So for ambient light shots , i dont have to use internal flash to CWB?
BTW , i learned a lot a lot of useful tips and techniques from ur underwaterguide.com!!
Very useful website for a newbie like me.Thank you so much!!
Karl_H
Contributor
I'd agree about avoiding the use of custom WB, especially if you can shoot in RAW and adjust later! the beauty of RAW is you can adjust to how you remember the scene or how you feel it looks best - both of which can be very differnt to the real WB setting at the scene 
!
If using a strobe or internal flash the WB should be auto or flash mode (or set to the temperature of the flash/strobe).
My big recommendation would be to get an external strobe as soon as (financially) possible, the results you can get with one will make you feel it's one of the best investments you can make after just one dive
Karl
!If using a strobe or internal flash the WB should be auto or flash mode (or set to the temperature of the flash/strobe).
My big recommendation would be to get an external strobe as soon as (financially) possible, the results you can get with one will make you feel it's one of the best investments you can make after just one dive
Karl
scottfiji
Contributor
hi Ahken
I'm glad you are learning alot from the site.
FYI, Ambient light means you are not using an internal flash (using natural light only), so the flash is off when you CWB, and the flash is off when you take the photo. If you CWB in deeper water, and then come shallow, you must CWB again or your photos will look too red.
Hi there,
Lot's of great advice here in the Forum as usual.
Some basic things to remember;
1. In order for White Balance Correction to have the desired effect, the entire spectrum of light must reach the sensor/film in the camera. Anything less will produce an incorrect colour reproduction.
2. In order to achieve the full spectrum of light below a couple of meters, you must compensate by providing additional light in the form of an external (to nature) source of light, usually a strobe or strobes.
3. When shooting RAW, you are in effect choosing to cook the product yourself and the camera does nothing but give you the available ingredients. In this case, your results are unprocessed and you need to apply the full scope of development including colour correction, white balance, sharpening and so forth. Many times people forget that they are taking over the function that the camera normally does when processing the light to create a jpg file for you.
Hope this provides a different perspective for you.
Best Regards
Richard (Riger)
Lot's of great advice here in the Forum as usual.
Some basic things to remember;
1. In order for White Balance Correction to have the desired effect, the entire spectrum of light must reach the sensor/film in the camera. Anything less will produce an incorrect colour reproduction.
2. In order to achieve the full spectrum of light below a couple of meters, you must compensate by providing additional light in the form of an external (to nature) source of light, usually a strobe or strobes.
3. When shooting RAW, you are in effect choosing to cook the product yourself and the camera does nothing but give you the available ingredients. In this case, your results are unprocessed and you need to apply the full scope of development including colour correction, white balance, sharpening and so forth. Many times people forget that they are taking over the function that the camera normally does when processing the light to create a jpg file for you.
Hope this provides a different perspective for you.
Best Regards
Richard (Riger)
When doing white balance, there are three issues:
1. The color of the ambient light, which depends on how much water the sunlight moves through (typicallly, from the surface to the subject and then from the subject to the camera)
2. The color of the light from your flash, which depends on both the flash and on how much water the flash travels through (typically, the dsitance from the flash to the subject and then from the subject to the camera housing)
3. The balance of light between ambient and flash.
By doing CWB with the flash set to minimum, you were changing #3. When you did the CWB, you told the camera, "this is a neutral color", and the camera said "Oh no! That seems really blue to me, but Ahken says it's white, so I really need to amplify anything that looks even a little like red to balance out all of the blue!" Then, when you actually took the picture, your flash added white light (which includes some red), and the camera really amplified all of the reds, resulting in the red tint you saw in your photos.
1. I am not sure all photographers are looking to have the same desired effect from WB correction. If you desire to have the photo look like it looked to your eyes at the time of the shot, at depth your eyes are not seeing the entire spectrum of light. (see #2 above)
3. Shooting RAW gives one the option of modifying all the data recorded by the sensors, in a smaller file size than other lossless file types. A tiff is twice the file size of a raw file on my 5050, but they are both lossless, are they not? If I shoot F5, 80th with my strobe, many results will require no post processing. Ambient shots in P, Auto also may not require any post processing to look like my eye saw it. Does P, Auto function differently in raw than jpg?
1. I absolutely agree that not all PG's are looking to get the true colour and that some would like some attempt to achieve a different "effect". Reading the OP's posts however, it appears that the OP is disappointed that the correction attempt has not resulted in a true colour result. Hence my comment about WB only resulting in a "True Colour" when the entire spectrum is available.
2. Your #2 missing.
3. The OP appears to have been "new" to RAW format, and so without reference to lossy/lossless formats of recording the data, I was merely pointing out the there is no/minimal processing applied in RAW recording and that in many cases this may lead to a disappointing (unprocessed) result. You are right, many times my RAW results are ready to print as is, this is more often by chance and not by design.
Quote from Wiki: A camera raw image file contains minimally processed data from the image sensor of either a digital camera, image or motion picture film scanner. Raw files are so named because they are not yet processed and therefore are not ready to be printed or edited with a bitmap graphics editor.
Best Regards
Richard (Riger)
I had no #2 because your #2 was fine IMHO.
Learn about RAW, JPEG, and TIFF with the digital photography experts at Photo.net.
My unanswered Q about tiff and raw both being lossless was laziness, hoping someone else would answer. Tiff is lossless although the camera apparently does more processing to a tiff than to a raw (twice the file size), but raw is not unprocessed by the camera. In Program Mode, my camera decides the F-stop, shutter & iso (I think); Auto should mean there is auto white balance, but does the raw file format choice mean the camera makes no WB decision?
When using my strobe I shoot preset manual settings (MyModes) where I chose F-stop, shutter and iso, but I still set WB to Auto. Does the raw format mean that the WB choice is not processing?
My understanding of setting WB underwater is that to be correct the white you use for the setting needs to be the same distance away and the same orientation both with regards to horizontal and the sun angle as the subject. That will not be possible most of the time, so there will be post processing necessary to achieve what your eye saw, and the surroundings/background will not have the correct WB setting, unless they are nearly the same plane as the subject (wall?). Done well, the post processing is easier, but there is still post processing to get the right color.
Cathy, you seem to be saying you set WB underwater for strobe photo's to get better background color, and seem not to say the OP's WB attempts with minimal flash might be part of the problem? Another question is what file format are you using when you set WB for strobe shots?
I am of the opinion that a G11 in Auto modes would have fired the internal flash harder and produced a better/acceptable clownfish image, without setting WB underwater.
Learn about RAW, JPEG, and TIFF with the digital photography experts at Photo.net.
My unanswered Q about tiff and raw both being lossless was laziness, hoping someone else would answer. Tiff is lossless although the camera apparently does more processing to a tiff than to a raw (twice the file size), but raw is not unprocessed by the camera. In Program Mode, my camera decides the F-stop, shutter & iso (I think); Auto should mean there is auto white balance, but does the raw file format choice mean the camera makes no WB decision?
When using my strobe I shoot preset manual settings (MyModes) where I chose F-stop, shutter and iso, but I still set WB to Auto. Does the raw format mean that the WB choice is not processing?
My understanding of setting WB underwater is that to be correct the white you use for the setting needs to be the same distance away and the same orientation both with regards to horizontal and the sun angle as the subject. That will not be possible most of the time, so there will be post processing necessary to achieve what your eye saw, and the surroundings/background will not have the correct WB setting, unless they are nearly the same plane as the subject (wall?). Done well, the post processing is easier, but there is still post processing to get the right color.
Cathy, you seem to be saying you set WB underwater for strobe photo's to get better background color, and seem not to say the OP's WB attempts with minimal flash might be part of the problem? Another question is what file format are you using when you set WB for strobe shots?
I am of the opinion that a G11 in Auto modes would have fired the internal flash harder and produced a better/acceptable clownfish image, without setting WB underwater.
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