Cuba

[Debraw]

I went to a travel agent seminar about a year ago on how to travel to Cuba legally as a US Citizen. You had to enroll in a educational college program at a university in the US that offered "the course". Cost of the trip was around $3600. All your meals, hotel, air, everything you would need for the trip for a week was included. As an American you could spend no more than $100 for the length of your stay. You had to visit a Cuban "museum", (more like a propaganda hut). We watched a 30 minute DVD on how "fabulous" Cuba was. We saw pictures of an under developed nation racked with poor people. The video talked about how much the Cubans loved their old cars and how they took so much pride in restoring them. Yeah they loves those 1950's cars because they can't get new ones! One more poignant moment was how they romanticized how they were so in tune with their traditions of the country they were born in , all the while they show a woman hauling water in a white 5 gallon bucket by some rope up to a 5th floor apartment in a dilapidated building. It was a wierd video and one I have not soon forgotten.
On a diving note I have a video tape at the shop that has some footage of a submersible that discovered a diver at 700 feet that had attempted a deep dive and did not make it. All they found were some bones with a set of gear attached. Yikes, know your limits!

 

[BetterLateThannever]

You do understand they're waiting for Castro to die. There's no way any American government, Democrat or Republican could ever say "you won" to Fidel. Rightly so, by the way.

 

[bmaber]

I guess the thing that I that got to me was that Cubans have so many restrictions, like not using Internet and not being allowed to travel. Deep down it stuck me that Castro is afraid that the people of Cuba will see how good life is outside of communism. But then I wonder what it is that Jessie Helms is afraid American’s will see in Cuba and why people in a free county can’t go where they please. The $2,500 fine is not the limit, but it is what the U.S. government fined a citizen I read about who was turned in by a former friend. It is odd that Russia still has thousands of nukes aimed at America, IRAN shouts death to America and the Somalia protected Osama Bin Laden for years, yet Americans can go to all those places. Even the embargo does not seam to really work. Dell, Ford and Coke sell openly in Cuba through Mexican subsidiaries, in full view of the US state department, and even if they can’t buy from Americans Europe is happy to build hotels, provide VWs and sell Airbus aircraft so what is the point?

But I am not much for politics, and I really did not mean to give legal advice. I like the reefs, and the diving; the area is beautiful and the damage still minimal. The Cuban people are very nice, and when Castro is gone or the laws change it will all be there for my American friends to explore. Sorry if I offended anyone. For me I would rather blow bubbles that talk politics.

 

[H2Andy]

I guess the thing that I that got to me was that Cubans have so many restrictions, like not using Internet and not being allowed to travel.

i am glad you kept your eyes open while you were in Cuba. despite the
best intentions of those who fought with Castro, he just instituted a
dictatorship much worse than the one previous to him.

there are some benefits to the people (basically four: free housing,
guaranteed employment, free education at all levels, and free health care).

of course, you have to balance that with: the houses are falling apart
because the government can't fixt them; the average Cuban makes less
than $5.00 (US) per month; you get to go to college for free, but
God forbid you speak your mind ... it's jail-time for you; and who wants
to live longer in these conditions anyway? also, as to medicine,
since the Soviet collapse there's been a scarcity of medicine and
medical supplies due to the government mis-management of the economy.

as to the embargo: we do business with Viet-Nam... but not with Cuba... odd...

i say open up the gates. it's up to American citizens to decide where they want to go

here's a joke that was popular in Cuba a few years back:

what are Castro's three greatest accomplishments?

health care, education, and women's rights.

What are Castro's three greatest failures?

breakfast, lunch, and dinner

 

[ScubaTexan]

But I am not much for politics, and I really did not mean to give legal advice. I like the reefs, and the diving; the area is beautiful and the damage still minimal. The Cuban people are very nice, and when Castro is gone or the laws change it will all be there for my American friends to explore. Sorry if I offended anyone. For me I would rather blow bubbles that talk politics.

You didn't offend anyone....it just saddens us that everyone else in the world can go to Cuba and dive, but we can't...

 

[pablovi]

I went to a travel agent seminar about a year ago on how to travel to Cuba legally as a US Citizen. You had to enroll in a educational college program at a university in the US that offered "the course". Cost of the trip was around $3600. All your meals, hotel, air, everything you would need for the trip for a week was included. As an American you could spend no more than $100 for the length of your stay. You had to visit a Cuban "museum", (more like a propaganda hut). We watched a 30 minute DVD on how "fabulous" Cuba was. We saw pictures of an under developed nation racked with poor people. The video talked about how much the Cubans loved their old cars and how they took so much pride in restoring them. Yeah they loves those 1950's cars because they can't get new ones! One more poignant moment was how they romanticized how they were so in tune with their traditions of the country they were born in , all the while they show a woman hauling water in a white 5 gallon bucket by some rope up to a 5th floor apartment in a dilapidated building. It was a wierd video and one I have not soon forgotten.
On a diving note I have a video tape at the shop that has some footage of a submersible that discovered a diver at 700 feet that had attempted a deep dive and did not make it. All they found were some bones with a set of gear attached. Yikes, know your limits!

I'm sorry, but have you ever been to Mexico? Honduras, or any other latin american capitalist country??? They are a lot poorer than Cuba you know! The fact that they have luxurios accomodations, special areas, and that you don't get to see the real poverty it doesn't mean it doesn't exist!!! Do you know how many people can buy a car in Mexico??? there are about 20 millions cars, only about 10 percent of the pople can afford a car here! Because the ones who can, have multiple cars! Don't even talk about travel or having the internet! Only 5% of the MExican popultaion have regular acces to the internet. Only 20 percent of the people go out on vacation! Only 5% of the people travel by ariplane each year. We have real poverty here and people are starving.

So which is more just, that only a very small lucky few can have a life as in a rich country and the rest, including 45% in extreme poverty can't. Or that all have a similar standar of living? having free Health, housing and education?

Yeah, you may call Castro an opressor, but I have 45 million mexicans tha only dream about having the life the Cubans have! I won't justify Castro, but he's not Stalin! or Saddam, and infact he's less opressor than the military dicatosships intalled by the US in Latin America!

But I'm sorry, if you're more concerned about having good accomodations.

PS: Mods, this have been a political disscucion, well, just attack on Cubans. So if you delete this thread because of me, better bann me, because, you do't like to hear both sides!

 

[H2Andy]

Do you know how many people can buy a car in Mexico??? there are about 20 millions cars, only about 10 percent of the pople can afford a car here! Because the ones who can, have multiple cars!

Mexico's population is 106,202,903

ten percent of that is 1,062,029

if your figures are right, each one of those people owns 20 cars

:33:

but let us look at a more meanignful figure:

in 1957, Cubans consumed 2730 calories per day. Mexicans consumed 2430.
in fact, other than Argentina and Urugay, Cuba led Central and South America
in calories consumed.

in 1995, Cubans consumed 2291 calories per day. Mexicans consumed 3135.
Cuba is IN LAST PLACE when compared to the same countries back in 1957.

source

Mexico is moving forward. Cuba is hopelessly falling behind
due to the goverments refusal to embrace capitalism.

i said it once and i'll say it again: communism don't work, folks

that said, i believe it is up to American citizens to decide where they
travel, and the embargo on Cuba is pointless and counter-productive.

 

[Floridawannabe]

As A US American I did get to go to Cuba Ok, only because I was in the Army, while we had little R&R. The ocean swims were great, the Marines had Scuba instructors that gave lessons and took students out to do reef dives. They always came back with GIAGANTIC Conc(?) Shells also. The banna rats ate the cats over there at least that is what it sounded like. While there I talked to the Cubans and they told me of what Castro allowed(Chemical testing on them) that is why they tried to come over to America. This came directly from the Cubans mouths. Some were allowed to go to the states but the INS did background checks on them and if they had a criminal history in America they were sent back to Cuba. The very sick ones were taken to the US and recieved medical treatment, from there I do not know what happen to them.

The water is very clear and bueatiful. I never did do any diving while there but did swim ever chance I had.

 

[sealskin98]

Ahhh, this looks like it's turning into an interesting thread.

Any independent or opposing stats. to reference to Doc? We all know how stats. can be.

 

[H2Andy]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

attributed by Mark Twain to Benjamin Disraeli