Creation vs. Evolution

[Soggy]

Is that all you want?

I'd also like a Ferrari, too, but even though your name is close, I don't think you can help me with that one.

I don't agree with all the points that I think Andy is trying to make but I do agree that anyone who knowingly rejects God and His salvation plan is headed for big trouble...Hell, if you will but more to the point, seperation from God because that is what they have chosen. There I said it. Whether or not that includes Gandhi and the Dhali lama, I have no idea.

Separation from just your version of a god? Most religions have a god, if not many gods (i.e. Hinduism). Does that count? Or is it only those who have accepted the Christian version? Gandhi and the Dhali Lama are/were certainly spiritual people and have brought immeasurable good to the world, but they are not believers in Christianity, so by your belief, they are going to hell.

I can respect the consistency in your belief, but the logic of it fails me.

 

[Thalassamania]

Is that all you want? big trouble...Hell, if you will but more to the point, seperation from God because that is what they have chosen. There I said it. Whether or not that includes Gandhi and the Dhali lama, I have no idea.

As Mark Twain observed, "Heaven for climate, hell for company."

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Not at all. I have no bitterness. I'm marrying a Christian. I just expect people to think rationally and consistently. It surprises me that a fundamentalist Christian who disagrees with evolution, a proven theory, would be honored to be aligned with a group of people that, by their own beliefs, is going to hell.

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. If you believe that 'accepting Jesus' is the only way to salvation, then 4 billion people on this planet are going to hell regardless of how much good they did while here. And that includes Gandhi and the Dhali Lama. I just want someone to stand up and be consistent enough with their own beliefs and say it...or, explain to me how someone can make it to heaven without believing in Jesus without being a hypocrite.

Then perhaps there is hope for you after all

And before I proceed further let me say that I have met Soggy. I like Soggy. He and I got along well on the dive boat. He is an AJ Squared away DIveR.

How do you and she define Christian? Not Islam, Hindu, Animist, Humanist, Jewish, Buddhist or "other"?

Does she think "rationally and consistantly"? If not, why are you marrying her?
Why would you marry someone who believes something you do not believe? But then there is the James Carville and 'whatshername' marriage that is so peculiar ...

Does she understand the concept of being unequally yoked? If so, why is she marrying you? Why would she marry someone who does not believe what she believes?

Going to heaven is not about "doing good" ... it's not a works based salvation. That's Islam (and others)

 

[Hemlon]

I am SO glad that I'm an agnostic. It really helps put all of this into persepective!

 

[Soggy]

Does she think "rationally and consistantly"? If not, why are you marrying her?

Well, she's female, so asking her to think rationally and consistently is a bit much.
[Soggy ducks]
JUST KIDDING!

Why would you marry someone who believes something you do not believe?

That's like asking someone why they would marry someone of a different race. There's more to a relationship than religious beliefs. For some, it would be an issue. For us, it is not.

Does she understand the concept of being unequally yoked? If so, why is she marrying you? Why would she marry someone who does not believe what she believes?

Golly gee, I guess she just likes me.

"Unequally yoked"...what a bunch of claptrap. It is a meaningless phrase. It's bigoted drivel no better than segregation.

This gave me some laughs: http://unequallyyoked.net/

 

[H2Andy]

In this second case, if your intent is to scripturally support the assumption that all those with incomplete knowledge or understanding of the gospel automatically go to Hell, I think you have more work to do.

my point is that the Bible does address these issues directly. however, it is a harsh answer.

so a complex, tortured exegesis of unrelated verses is clobbered together to try and come up with a better answer that is not there.

the Biblibical answer, simple and to the point, is "No Jesus, you go to Hell"

because it is such a disturbing teaching, christians as early as 200 AD were trying to do mental gymnastics to come up with a better solution. that article is nothing more than another attempt in a long tradtion to find a "better answer" because the Biblical answer is so harsh.

see my point?

even you dont' believe in the Biblical truth, it seems. you just can't accept what is written in black and white.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Well, she's female, so asking her to think rationally and consistently is a bit much.
[Soggy ducks]
JUST KIDDING!

That's like asking someone why they would marry someone of a different race. There's more to a relationship than religious beliefs. For some, it would be an issue. For us, it is not.

Golly gee, I guess she just likes me.

"Unequally yoked"...what a bunch of claptrap. It is a meaningless phrase. It's bigoted drivel no better than segregation.

This gave me some laughs: http://unequallyyoked.net/

As I posted my previous I suspected it would twist thinsulate undies into a knot.
If you don't like the message, that's your free will choice; He won't force Himself on you.

I hope it's a bit more than like.

 

[Soggy]

I hope it's a bit more than like.

As do I. She's stuck with me for over four years so far, so I think she has a good idea about what she's getting herself into.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Not at all. I have no bitterness. I'm marrying a Christian. I just expect people to think rationally and consistently. It surprises me that a fundamentalist Christian who disagrees with evolution, a proven theory, would be honored to be aligned with a group of people that, by their own beliefs, is going to hell.

In my other reply to this post I didn't really address this part of it. I don't know about anyone else but I certainly have friends who are not Christian. I don't know of any Biblical reason that I shouldn't. There are certainly people who have done admirable things who are not Christian. While we are all sinful and fallen by nature we are also all created in the image of God so why should it be a surprise that an "unsaved" person (seperated from God) could display some degree of "goodness"? Whether or not they are going to Hell is really between them and God. According to the Bible we all start out in the same place...guilty and convicted. If I have been "saved" and ifyou have not, it does not mean that I am better than you. Jesus is the only one who is worthy and my salvation is not made possible because I am in any way superior. On the contrary the Bible says that we need a boroken spirit and a broken and contrite heart. I have no way of knowing what God has planned. What I do know is that He said that the least will be greatest so how could I have any idea who will be great in the Kingdom of God? Jesus washed the feet of His desciples. He did not ask them to wash His feet. I think the Bible tells us to spread the good news (the gospel) but I think it also tells us to do so in a spirit of service and humility.

 

[MikeFerrara]

my point is that the Bible does address these issues directly. however, it is a harsh answer.

so a complex, tortured exegesis of unrelated verses is clobbered together to try and come up with a better answer that is not there.

the Biblibical answer, simple and to the point, is "No Jesus, you go to Hell"

because it is such a disturbing teaching, christians as early as 200 AD were trying to do mental gymnastics to come up with a better solution. that article is nothing more than another attempt in a long tradtion to find a "better answer" because the Biblical answer is so harsh.

see my point?

even you dont' believe in the Biblical truth, it seems. you just can't accept what is written in black and white.

I do see your point but I don't completely agree.

I do believe in Biblical truth though I don't claim to completely understand every truth of scripture or the mind of God. From my limited understanding I think it woulde be un-Biblical to believe that you could have a complete understanding without even believeing. Do you see my point?