Creation vs. Evolution

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NetDoc:
This indicates that the "concept" you have is flawed for you. Ergo, the concept exists and does not "work". We can mince the etymology of all of this, but the fact that you have a word that represents "God" means that you have some working definition. Now you must assert whether you have faith that he exists (theist), does not exist (atheist) or that you have no stinking clue (agnostic).

Contrary to some opinions, "Faith" is not a four letter word. :D We all must use it to some degree or withdraw into a shell doing nothing. While it sounds incredibly intellectual to deny that we use Faith or are subject to it, the reality of the situation proves otherwise. Our beliefs are no stronger than the fallacies we prop them up with. The search for truth entails the systematic removal of these fallacies with the result being a better understanding of what is really true. The denial of faith is one such fallacy.

In some respects, Faith can be interchanged with the word "assumption". Here is an excerpt from the wikipedia entry for "theory" (emphasis mine):

[snip]
Arguments or theories always begin with some premises - "arbitrary elements" as Hawking calls them (see above), which are here described as "assumptions". An assumption according to Asimov is "something accepted without proof, and it is incorrect to speak of an assumption as either true or false, since there is no way of proving it to be either. (If there were, it would no longer be an assumption.) It is better to consider assumptions as either useful or useless, depending on whether deductions made from them corresponded to reality.... On the other hand, it seems obvious that assumptions are the weak points in any argument, as they have to be accepted on faith in a philosophy of science that prides itself on its rationalism. Since we must start somewhere, we must have assumptions, but at least let us have as few assumptions as possible."
[/snip]
 
Have you ever met two people who believed exactly the same things, who never disagreed?

Now either everyone can't be right.........or there's more than one right answer.
 
Rainer:
No, you get a *semantics* error. You just said the symbol manipulation (syntax) is fine!

Right. The compiler can syntax check it, but doesn't know how to turn it into assembly language...
 
Kim:
Have you ever met two people who believed exactly the same things, who never disagreed?

Now either everyone can't be right.........or there's more than one right answer.

The peril of that argument is that there are certainly a lot of wrong answers out there...
 
... but that time is long past and it is impossible now for me to go back to unbelief.

As an act of my will I chose to believe in something I couldn't see, couldn't understand and was intellectually convinced didn't exist. Call it a faith experiment... truly, it was a blind faith experiment.

That phase didn't last long because evidence began to pile up: experiential evidence ~ undeniable evidence. What started as blind faith turned into a "spiritual knowing".

I still don't understand a lot of things, but I believe... and for that I'm am very thankful.

Faith is a wonderful thing to have!

I hate to risk starting an argument in such a civil thread as this, but... it is kinda like folks who argue against a backplate/wing without every having experienced diving with one. But once they finally do the usual response is "Wow!"

You just don't know what you don't know.
 
NetDoc:
Somehow, without ever trying to use a reel, Andy had faith that he could master it.

no, previous experience had taught me that with a reasonable degree of effort, i can master relatively complex tasks

however, i know that i do not have the mental set or physical ability to master REALLY complex skills. i've learned that the hard way too.

for example, i know i can't walk a tight-rope, despite months of trying.

i can't get calculus, despite two years of college.

i can't do real sweet programming, despite lots of amateur efforts.

so ... from past experience, i can predict (usually) which tasks i will be able to accomplish with some work, and which ones are best left alone

again, that's not faith. that's past experience guiding my future actions.
 
lamont:
The peril of that argument is that there are certainly a lot of wrong answers out there...
Most certainly.....

It doesn't stop people believing them though. Simply reading through this thread is proof that even all the people who believe in the 'truth' of the Bible actually all interpret it differently from each other. They all seem to believe they have the right answer though. This isn't just true for them, it applies to all of us whatever we believe - so that adds up to an awful lot of opinions. Basically, it seems reasonable to suppose that your chances of being wrong are hugely greater than your chances of being right. Logically that should engender some level of humility in personal beliefs.....but it often doesn't seem to work like that.
 
Uncle Pug:
I hate to risk starting an argument in such a civil thread as this, but... it is kinda like folks who argue against a backplate/wing without every having experienced diving with one. But once they finally do the usual response is "Wow!"

You just don't know what you don't know.

Pug, good to see you posting

the difference is that the bp/wings is aphysical, tangible thing, and faith is all in your head. with a bp/wings v. bc, you can try both and see which one you like best.

i got tired of talking to myself and calling it prayer. just decided to call it what it was.

i wouldn't know if i was right or wrong either way. no way to check.
 
scubafool:
Actually, we have pictures. And witnesses. Many, many witnesses.


not after a bit of arson.. er... an accidental fire or two...

:54:
 
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