I
idocsteve
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Still here. Proves my poinnnnttttttttttt AHHHHH! HElp me somebody I've been hit!!!
Creation vs. Evolution
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Soggy:
I understand that. I'm not offering the Bible as proof but as a source.
I quote the Bible for several reasons. So you can see where I got what I say, so you can read it yourself if you choose, and so that if you do, and you find where I made an error, you can use your understanding of scripture to correct me.
We often see the Bible misquoted (many many times in this thread alone). Most often people say..."The Bible says..." Only it doesn't say that and they provide no references. Often it's on purpose, sometimes it's just out of ignorance and other times it's just a mistake. If I misrepresent the Bible it is a mistake and I will do my best to accept correction. Either way, with references, you can read it for yourself to check what I say.
Hank49
Contributor
MikeFerrara:
I guess you could be right.....a sin is a sin. But 6 million sins has to be worse than one sin in God's eyes doesn't it?
Soggy
Contributor
Hank49:
If, by sin, we mean "moral wrong", then that makes no sense. Stealing a pack of bubble gum is wrong, as is murdering your neighbor and their family with an axe. One is clearly more wrong than the other.
My belief is that harm is about the only intrinsic wrong (and only because we are sentient). Stealing a pack of bubble gum harms very few in a very small way (if units of happiness existed, bubble gum stealing would warrant very few negative happiness points), however murdering a family harms many in a very serious way.
If a sin is a sin and sins are defined by god's commandments, then murder and thievery are no different...both will put you in hell for eternity if not repented by accepting Christ (whatever that means) before you die.
Warthaug
Contributor
MikeFerrara:
Exodus 21:7
If a man sells his daughter as a slave she will not leave as male slaves do.
Exodus 21:8
If she does not please her master who intended her for himself he must let her be bought back.
1 Timothy 6:1
All those who are under the yoke of slavery must have unqualified respect for their masters, so that the name of God and our teaching is not brought into disrepute.
1 Timothy 2:9
Slaves must be obedient to their masters in everything, and do what is wanted without argument.
1 Peter 2:18
Slaves, you should obey your masters respectfully, not only those who are kind and reasonable but also those who are difficult to please.
1 Corinthians 7:21
Even if you have a chance of freedom you should prefer to make full use of your condition as a slave.
Bryan
idocsteve:
I think you say this in jest but you probably outa duck NOW!
Yep I was kidding...Are you still there? LOL
What if you asked God to reveal Himself to you? Do you think he would?
A story...I always have a story. I didn't really introduce my children to God as I should have and when I wanted to, they were pretty much set in their ways. My son was on his way to the marines and I was worried.
My son, my wife and myself went out fishing one day on a local river. We hadn't been going there much because it hadn't been so good lately. I always outfished the boy and he was ging on about his three year bad luck streak and how he never catches anything. Really now, this is Indiana, not Canada.
So, I thought, what the heck could it hurt. While I stood there in water up to my belly button in the river fishing, I prayed that my son might catch something...enough that I could explain that he caught it because I had prayed that he might believe.
No sooner had I finished the thought/prayer, his pole bent and he had a smallmouth bass. He caught several (I don't remember how many) in quick succession.
I won't tell you that I've never had this happen on this river before because I have, even when I did not pray. It is not common though and I usually do not pray for fish. LOL. You can therefore decide for yourself whether or not prayer had anything to do with it.
He was as happy as a pig in...in...well you know. Later as he was going on about his prowis as a fishermen and I told him that I had prayed. He stuck to his guns that it was his skill that caught those fish and we traded some logic over the issue. Of course he knew that his "skill" had failed him more than once.
The result, I think he believes. I don't know if he completely understands but he has begun. My prayer now is that it gets done in time. Soon he'll be in Iraq or somplace over there and if he doesn't come home I want him to go to God. I think God means to eventually have him though I hope that it's much later and long after I'm dead.
Anyway, if you pray for belief, I think you might just get an answer.
I think that some of you in this thread are pretty young. Not all of course but I have one more suggestion...no, make it a request. That is, that we all pray that God does have a handle on all of this. If He doesn't, then all we have to look forward to is watching our governments kill our children and feed them to the worms just for the sake of a few more votes come next election. Could any Hell be worse than that?
Two points.
1. Thou shalt not kill (one of the ten commandments)
2. The masacre killing by God at the time of Noah
Q: ahh, do what I say, not what I do.......?
A: ,,i,,
,,i,, jefe, cause dat chit ain't right
Hitler and God should get along just fine together in heaven, like two peas in a pod. They are technically two genocidal maniacs who could chew the fat, debating / bragging about how many people each took out :freak:
1. Thou shalt not kill (one of the ten commandments)
2. The masacre killing by God at the time of Noah
Q: ahh, do what I say, not what I do.......?
A: ,,i,,
,,i,, jefe, cause dat chit ain't rightHitler and God should get along just fine together in heaven, like two peas in a pod. They are technically two genocidal maniacs who could chew the fat, debating / bragging about how many people each took out :freak:
H2Andy
Contributor
MikeFerrara:
i don't mean this in a negative way, but i think we are talking past each other.
you believe in a supernatural being that will give you eternal life and i don't.
i am not sure we can discuss what it means to be a good human being on the same level.
Warthaug:
defenders of slavery (pre-Civil War) loved the Bible and quoted these verses often
H2Andy:
Oh, sweet heavens!!! No, Andy...don;t say that. You really don;t mean that!!!!
Oh my gosh, we have to start a fundraiser to save Andy's soul. Initial estimates are in the range of $ooonga moonga million (ALOT)....(you feeling me here Andy?...*wink*)
Mike, let's start with you. How much can you contribute. It is for Andy's soul. Come, on, how about 80% of your gross income
It will make you feel good and gain you browny points with God What do you say mate?
shakeybrainsurgeon
Contributor
Many modern Christians quote the "Bible" when, in fact, Christ rejects much of the Old Testament. The Torah does set out specific laws for earthly behavior which are followed by orthodox Jews but not by Christians. Christianity does not provide much guidance for living an earthly life, unlike islam, Judaism and Hinduism which dictate all aspects of social and personal behavior. Christ says nothing about secular authority other than we should pay taxes (render unto Caesar). This is why Chrisitanity came to dominate western civilization: it has a chameleon-like ability to insinuate itself into many secular cultures since it makes few secular demands on its practioners. the average Catholic goes to church a dozen times a year at best, gets baptized, married and buried in the church, that's about it. Compare that to the rigorous life style demands of Judaism, the dietary constraints, the restrictions on marriage and so on.
As to the role of the Catholic Church, it's true that Protestants diverge in aspects of papal authority, transubstantiation, icon worship and so on. But remember, the new testament, the blueprint for modern Christianity, is a construct of the Catholic Church. In the first two centuries AD, there were hundreds of "gospels" and the church winnowed them down to four. If you wnat to really separate from the catholic dogma, stick to a non-traditional gospel, like that of Thomas, or of Judas. If the catholic church didn't keep alive the story of Christ, who did?
Bertrand Russell laments current Christian theology as 'ferocious": an allegedly benevolent God creates souls out of nothing, makes them weak, lets them dance like marionettes for seventy years on an earth full of temptations, then, if those souls fail to follow his rules, he condemns them to eternal torment...as George Carlin points out: if you sin, you will be put into a world of fire and flesh eating worms forever by a God WHO LOVES YOU. Nonsense.
I agree --- the God I believe in must have an infinity capacity for forgiveness, which means no one can be punished forever no matter what they do.
The gospels, I feel, give an inadequate picture of Christ. Viewed dispassionately, the Christ of the four gospels is a) humorless (and humor is our most human quality) and b) cryptic (if he has only three years to give us the blueprint for a just life, why speak in parables that require complex interpretation). Chrisitan stores sell images of a laughing Christ surrounded by children, but no where in the new testament does Christ laugh. I don't trust people who never laugh or joke.
He is also a socialist, which is ironic given that Christians tend to be conservative capitalists. He has no use for money, in fact he considers wealth an impediment to salvation. Nevertheless, all Chrisitan denominations are now preoccupied with cash flow... odd.
As to the role of the Catholic Church, it's true that Protestants diverge in aspects of papal authority, transubstantiation, icon worship and so on. But remember, the new testament, the blueprint for modern Christianity, is a construct of the Catholic Church. In the first two centuries AD, there were hundreds of "gospels" and the church winnowed them down to four. If you wnat to really separate from the catholic dogma, stick to a non-traditional gospel, like that of Thomas, or of Judas. If the catholic church didn't keep alive the story of Christ, who did?
Bertrand Russell laments current Christian theology as 'ferocious": an allegedly benevolent God creates souls out of nothing, makes them weak, lets them dance like marionettes for seventy years on an earth full of temptations, then, if those souls fail to follow his rules, he condemns them to eternal torment...as George Carlin points out: if you sin, you will be put into a world of fire and flesh eating worms forever by a God WHO LOVES YOU. Nonsense.
I agree --- the God I believe in must have an infinity capacity for forgiveness, which means no one can be punished forever no matter what they do.
The gospels, I feel, give an inadequate picture of Christ. Viewed dispassionately, the Christ of the four gospels is a) humorless (and humor is our most human quality) and b) cryptic (if he has only three years to give us the blueprint for a just life, why speak in parables that require complex interpretation). Chrisitan stores sell images of a laughing Christ surrounded by children, but no where in the new testament does Christ laugh. I don't trust people who never laugh or joke.
He is also a socialist, which is ironic given that Christians tend to be conservative capitalists. He has no use for money, in fact he considers wealth an impediment to salvation. Nevertheless, all Chrisitan denominations are now preoccupied with cash flow... odd.
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