Creation vs. Evolution

[Soggy]

You haven't actually read the Bible have you? The "why" is there along with many examples.

Yes, I have. I have also been to hundreds of church services in a variety of denominations and I actually listen pretty closely most of the time. I haven't often heard much for reasons behind the rules other than, "God said so, Jesus said so, you will go to heaven and be with God, etc, etc."

I still don't understand how you select with parts to ignore in the old testament, but you feel that you have explained it as best as you can, so I don't think I'll ever get a good answer.

 

[MikeFerrara]

As a male, I have never needed an abortion. Yet it is clear to me that forbidding females to have them is violating their freedom of choice, and in a democratic world, freedom is the highest priority.

An examination of many of our laws quickly shows that freedom is not always the highest priority.

To take away someone else's freedom is a political crime making the offender unworthy of receiving freedom of their own. Therefore I say, it would be appropriate to punish those who attempt to take away other persons' freedoms by removing their freedom instead. It is sort of like attempted murder.

All law lmits freedom.

As far as the 10 Commandments incribed on public buildings, that might be fine in the Jewish state, where political parties have religious interests. But it seems completely inappropriate in any other secular constitutional republic or democracy (nations tend to be republics, whereas cities tend to be democracies, just like in the days of the Romans and the Greeks, when these types of governments were invented).

A disagree. The Ten Commandments represent part of this nations haritage.

US currency has printed on it "In God we trust". My license plate says "In God we trust".

The first ammendment to the US Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Niether the Ten Commandments on a wall, "in God we trust" on our money or a cross or nativity sceen on public property constitutes a law of any kind let alone a law that respects an establishment of religion.

As far as gay/lesbian rights, cultures that are tolerant of opposing views survive longer and more peacefully.

The definition of "tolerance" seems to be changing.

As far as gay/lesbian parenting, this is not such an easy issue to address. It will probably require a constitutional amendment of its own to resolve.

Actually, nature seems have done a right handy job of taking care of this one for us.

But, while there may be some complaints about the way gay adoption is treated, I'm not aware of any laws regarding "gay parenting". ie, A gay person or couple, that somehow manages to get children can legally parent them.

 

[Kim]

US currency has printed on it "In God we trust".

Lot's of people believe in God. They aren't all Christians by a long way.

Wasn't there some guy, Senator or Governor or something, who had the Ten Commandments on a object in the entrance hall of a government building?

Didn't he have to take it away?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yes, I have. I have also been to hundreds of church services in a variety of denominations and I actually listen pretty closely most of the time. I haven't often heard much for reasons behind the rules other than, "God said so, Jesus said so, you will go to heaven and be with God, etc, etc."

All through the Bible we see the many characters of the Bible obey, disobey, do things right and make mistakes. We gets some pretty vivid illustrations concerning the results and resolutions.

What happened to David when he committed adultery and murder and then tried to cover it up?

What was the result when Abraham didn't trust God's promise and took his wifes suggestion instead?

How did things work out for Joseph after doing things God's way through the most difficult of circumstances and temptations...and weren't his brothers surprised at how it all turned out?

Psalms and Proverbs are loaded with advice, wisdom and reasons for it that still ring true.

Throughout we see example after example of people dealing so many aspects of life that we still deal with today from dealing with loss, hardship, money, power, marriage, raising children, dealing with parents, servents dealing with masters and masters dealing with servants (employer/employee?) and the list goes on.

We could go on and on from the begining of the Old Testament to the New Testament where Paul deals with issues in the Church.

This very day, we can look around us and see examples of the very same things going on right before our eyes.

I still don't understand how you select with parts to ignore in the old testament, but you feel that you have explained it as best as you can, so I don't think I'll ever get a good answer.

Did you look over the chart that I linked?

 

[MikeFerrara]

It sure seems helpful and useful to the homosexuals.

Does it? It doesn't seem to me that they are all that content with what they have and I don't think they ever will be. They blame society and laws for it. Give them every single law and social change they want and my money says, it won't help them one bit.

Look at the abortion issue. The pro-choice folks made their point and got their way. They have their right to choose. Not only do women have their "equal rights", they are equal in a special way. They can choose life or death for their child where a father has no say at all.

Now look at all the joyful bliss just spewing forth as a result of all these abortions.

Thankfully, it's not that hard. It also doesn't mean not learning from other people's mistakes. I do plenty of that. Most of this stuff is pretty darn easy. Just because your answers came out of a book doesn't mean that mine aren't influenced by the smart people that have come before me. It's not like I'm starting tabula rasa here.



That's how I feel when the few people that I know who have abandoned religion finally came to their senses. As you said, it works on both sides. I actually see my way of looking at it much like the DIR approach...don't blindly follow what people say...make sure they have good reasons that fit within a broader context. My experience with DIR is that the rules and techniques are useless without being taught the context and reasons behind it.

It's not about blind faith in something just because it's in a book. Many of us have been around the block a few times and have enough experience and education to have some pretty well developed BS filters.

God does require us to have faith but He has demonstrated over and over that His word is good and our faith is well founded.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Lot's of people believe in God. They aren't all Christians by a long way.

Of course.

Wasn't there some guy, Senator or Governor or something, who had the Ten Commandments on a object in the entrance hall of a government building?

Didn't he have to take it away?

Who can keep track? The ACLU files another law suit about every other day, it seems.

Lots of court houses and other public buildings have displayed the Ten Commandments or something similar. Nativity scenes, crosses and other stuff has been displayed in parks, in front of court houses and in other public places. It's always been that way but in recent years we have all these law suites.

There was a judge (or someone) who, I think, ended up being removed from the bench because he refused to have the Ten Commandments (I think it was) removed in accordance with a court order.

The ACLU (and maybe other groups?) have set out to eliminate any refernce to God or Christianity in any public place under the assertion that it somehow violates the "seperation of church and state".

Earlier I mentioned my license plate that says "In God we trust"...I haven't heard any more about it recently but I heard there was an ACLU law suit over that too. BTW, it isn't the only license plate available in Indiana. It's just one of several choices. You don't get one unless you want to.

LOL and just look at how much better of a place the world has become since the ACLU decided to clean it up for us.

 

[shoredivr]

In terms of your link, Mike, and assuming that Old Covenant means the Old Testament, or Torah:

Brief Comparison between the Old Covenant and New Covenant in the Bible
"Old Covenant
If transgressed the law, physical atonement
for certain sins, death penalty for others.

New Covenant
If transgressed the law, forgiveness upon repentance; second death for unpardonable sin. "

There are numerous mitzvot, or laws in the Torah 613 Mitzvot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia,
including ones like don't shave your beard with a razor, not eating kosher foods, not labour on the seventh day, not to be afraid of killing the false prophet, not to mix milk or meat, and so on.

So your chart would mean to me that Christians should be following the law, ie, all mitzvot except circumcision and animal sacrifice (specified as per a previous entry on the chart).

Not the case as far as I know. Certain parts of the law have been emphasized above others.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Indiana license plate story FOXNews.com - Lawsuit Claims 'In God We Trust' Indiana License Plates Are Unconstitutional - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

The resolution FOXNews.com - Lawsuit Claims 'In God We Trust' Indiana License Plates Are Unconstitutional - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

 

[Soggy]

Does it? It doesn't seem to me that they are all that content with what they have and I don't think they ever will be.

Of course they aren't happy right now because we have the religious right out there trying to deny them the same rights that heterosexual people have. Look, I know plenty of happily married gay couples (in Massachusetts, where we at least gotten have one law right). The only unhappy gay people I know are those that have been made to feel guilty for being themselves or those who have experienced oppression because they don't have the same rights as everyone else. However, given the same rights (and far fewer judgemental people) and my experience is that they'll be perfectly content.

Now look at all the joyful bliss just spewing forth as a result of all these abortions.

I'm not sure anyone ever expected to be blissful about having an abortion. "Woot! I get to have an abortion!" For most, I imagine it is an incredibly tough choice....but the point is that they are given the choice.

It's not about blind faith in something just because it's in a book. Many of us have been around the block a few times and have enough experience and education to have some pretty well developed BS filters.

But it is blind faith. You don't know who wrote any of it. You were only told it was the Word of God.

God does require us to have faith but He has demonstrated over and over that His word is good and our faith is well founded.

Don't you see how circular that is? God's word is good because the word says God wrote it?

 

[Soggy]

Indiana license plate story FOXNews.com - Lawsuit Claims 'In God We Trust' Indiana License Plates Are Unconstitutional - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

The resolution FOXNews.com - Lawsuit Claims 'In God We Trust' Indiana License Plates Are Unconstitutional - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

Good. I wouldn't want to be forced to advertise beliefs that I don't share. I'd like to get that stuff out off of our money, too. But I do realize that Christian beliefs are deeply ingrained within all aspects of our government right down to the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. They need modernization.

EDIT: I just saw your point about how it's not the only available plate. While I still don't think that the government should be handing out plates that have any religious overtones, I do think that if there are other options (that don't cost an extra fee), the ACLU is probably making a mountain out of a mole hill. I do, however, believe that the ACLU, despite it's numerous flaws, has made the country a better place.