Creation vs. Evolution

[MikeFerrara]

And why do you think that is? Do you think that non-religious liberals are just interested in promoting murder and whatever just for fun? Maybe it has something to do with the original US idea of secularism in national life (private life being clearly different).

Being late for work again, I don't have time to get too far into this but the differences between political liberals and conservatives in the US are far deeper and wider ranging than just the abortion issue. Religion isn't, at all, what what defines or seperates the two.

Allowing abortion doesn't make it happen - it simply gives a choice. Those who feel as you do are completely free to do what they like and not have one. In spite of your protestations of freedom of choice in so many areas...employment comes to mind just from todays postings....you seem to want to remove that choice. That would mean that people who don't agree with YOUR definition of what viability, or a baby, actually is, would still have to go along with it...because it was law. For someone who professes to believe in freedom of choice I really don't understand this from you.

Kim, I don't claim the right of choice or ask for freedom with regard to deciding whether another person is allowed to live.

If you look at and compare conservative views and liberal views (as they relate to US politics), I think more of this will make sense to you. In this case, the liberals claim freedom to choose...but look at heir stance on taxes, welfare of a million other government functions that LIMIT choice and personal responsibility.

In that context, my opinion is that the abortion issue has more to do with ducking responsibility than it has to do with freedom of choice. LOL they want to play but feel it's unfair if they are required to pay.

To be sure, once you place yourself ( or are placed) in a position of responsibility your freedom of choice is effectively limited by that responsibility... unless you're a liberal and then you just whine that it isn't fair and try to get someone else to take care of it for you.

 

[shoredivr]

Huh, more from that Wiki article on Anita Bryant:

Anita Bryant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Career decline and bankruptcy

The fallout from her political activism had a devastating effect on her business and entertainment career. Her contract with the Florida Citrus Commission was allowed to lapse in 1979 because of the controversy and the negative publicity generated by her political campaigns and the resulting boycott of Florida orange juice.[2]

Her marriage to Bob Green failed at that time, and in 1980 she divorced him, although he reportedly has said that his fundamentalist religious beliefs do not recognize civil divorce and that she is still his wife in God's eyes. Some observers feel that her husband pushed her to get involved in the political activism that eventually led to her downfall and loss of income. [...] Green had a ferocious temper and could be very possessive and emotionally abusive and that Anita was not very happy.

Due to her divorce, many fundamentalist Christians shunned her. No longer invited to appear at their events, she lost a source of income. With her four children she moved from Miami to Selma, Alabama, and later to Atlanta, Georgia. In a Ladies Home Journal article she said, "The church needs to wake up and find some way to cope with divorce and women's problems."

In the 1980s she even renounced her anti-gay ways. In the same article in Ladies Home Journal she said that she felt sorry for all of the hateful things she had said and done during her campaign.[3] She said that she had a more "Live and let live" attitude now."

 

[shoredivr]

And you don't think this is a valid concern? You don't think mother and father each have an important function? You think two men or two women are interchangeable with a mother and a father?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the best thing for children is to be raised by a mother and a father....and preferably their own mother and father.

You asked for research to show it's discrimination, and then dismiss it since studies can be made to show anything one wants them to.....and ideas based on lack of knowledge, cultural bias or fear are a better choice?

Personally? I think that what children need is to be loved by whomever raises them. Cultures around the world raise children in "non-traditional" family settings, and the world hasn't ended yet..

And what about those unfortunate families where the model the parent(s) show is one of violence or abuse? Is that really better for the child?

 

[AXL72]

"Thou shalt not kill"

Hmm...God (or rather one of his agents) killed a bunch of people during passover.

God did kill a bunch of human and animal lives during the Great Flood, except for a small lucky few who were not at the wrong end of his discrimination, which was totally frivilous. But, boy...it sure would have been good to be a fish back in that day, huh

I don't know. Makes me want to pick up a torch and pitch fork and incite a riot against God when I die.

I mean, I ain't no God, but I would not have gone so far to kill. I would have scared the beegeebies out of them and made them crap their pants. I know I know, he tried that with plagues, but shoot, how scary is that. Put the sight of a 100 demons images in front of someones face or the fear of bodily mutilation will do the trick.

Shoot, He could have just cut off one or two fingers as opposed to jumping from lil bitty plagues to full blown death of lil babies (first born).

And I ain;t even gonna touch His lack of morality in not doing anything about the slaves on American soil in the cotton fields or in Bonaire in the salt ponds.

So when we all get to hell, who is with me!!! ...in starting a riot against God?


Is this a case of, "do what I say, not as I do", or is it the case of, "&$#*&! I did not write the Bible!...and that ain't My word!"??

 

[shoredivr]

"Thou shalt not kill"

Hmm...God (or rather one of his agents) killed a bunch of people during passover.

God did kill a bunch of human and animal lives during the Great Flood, except for a small lucky few who were not at the back end of his discrimination, which was totally frivilous.

Shoot, He could have just cut off one or two fingers as opposed to jumping from lil bitty plagues to full blown death of lil babies (first born).

And I ain;t even gonna touch His lack of morality in not doing anything about the slaves on American soil in the corn fields or in Bonaire in the salt ponds.

Is this a case of, "do what I say, not as I do"

Point taken. Religious laws and edicts change over time....

 

[dlndavid]

I don't know. Makes me want to pick up a torch and pitch fork and incite a riot against God when I die.

So when we all get to hell, who is with me!!! ...in starting a riot against God?

So you do believe in hell?

Is this a case of, "do what I say, not as I do", or is it the case of, "&$#*&! I did not write the Bible!...and that ain't My word!"??

It might have been a bit more colorful if you had, our loss

 

[AXL72]

So you do believe in hell?

Bit of sarcasm, there.

 

[Hank49]

How? Be specific.



What we need is reason and logic to be our moral guide, not 2000 year old novels.

I don't know Soggy. When I finally read the New Testament, after years of thinking pretty much what you're saying, I found it to be very enlightening. It's amazing how answers to many of today's problems are there in that "2000 year old novel".

As far as reason and logic being our moral guide, who taught you? Were you born with this knowledge? I think having written lessons about what has been learned as far as how to function as a peaceful society is a good thing. What you're implying is that you have nothing to learn from your elders. ?? At least that's what I gather from your statement.

 

[AXL72]

It's amazing how answers to many of today's problems are there in that "2000 year old novel".

Answers? Yes, I agree with you. Plenty of answers.

However, are they correct answers?

Car salesmen can give you answers and what you want to hear. But when it comes right down to the contract and you trying to collect on some of those "answers", well, the answers sometimes don't seem to be truthful or correct.

 

[dlndavid]

Good analogy Axl
Sarcasm back at you.