Creation vs. Evolution

[MikeFerrara]

Biologically speaking, there is nothing more to it than that. Pair bonding is an evolutionary trait that improves the odds of our offspring reaching reproductive maturity. No more, no less. That doesn't take anything away from the feelings that we experience, though. If anything, it increases my sense of wonder about the whole thing.

Lets hope there is more to love than feelings.

 

[H2Andy]

Lets hope there is more to love than feelings.

i agree

i think a pair bond, though evolutionary in origin, is about the most fulfilling relationship we experience as humans

or at least it can be. it can also be the most miserable experience we experience as humans.

i know it's a cliche, but any romantic relationship not based on friendship and trust is bound to fail ... or at least do a disservice to the people involved

 

[H2Andy]

Since you already know what God has to say on the matter I'll leave you to recon with that on your own.

since we know what YOU think God has to say on the matter (many Christians disagree with you)

it's a subtle distinction, but an important one

 

[Sas]

Absolute beyond the pale nonsense. If you are going to accuse me of discrimination, I'm going to ask you to detail and support that accusation. It's a straw man argument.

We've been through this Mike and I won't go through it again.

The question is too nonsensical to answer.

No it isn't. But I take it that your answer would be 'no'. Aren't you lucky you turned out straight then? If you can't even consider what it would be like to be in the shoes of a homosexual you cannot say whether what you are proposing (marriage between man and woman only, no adoption rights, no allowing of the pushing of the gay agenda) won't affect homosexuals in a really negative way. It is a shame you have no empathy.

NO. I do NOT believe that the government should legislate against homosexuality and, to my knowledge, there is no legislation against homosexuality in the US.

Sorry for my confusion here. I actually had another sentence before this one about marriage so I meant legislate against marriage but I found myself being too repetitive so deleted that line but forgot the last one. Sorry for the confusion (though I did edit it later on)

The more relevant question here may be, what do you think it will do to them?

Wow, you quoted it but still asked this question. I will repeat:
"it will actually make them more accepting of homosexuals and people different to them (or make them feel more secure if they are gay as they will know there are others out there like them), which can only be a good thing."

What do you think it will do to them? You didn't answer that question.

Who is it that you are saying doesn't "accept" homosexuals? Personally, I'm one of those "hate the sin but love the sinner" types.

Acceptance does not involve denying homosexuals rights, which you seem to want to do by not allowing them to partake in marriage and so on. So your last sentence is ridiculous. I am sure most homosexuals hearing your views would not feel 'accepted'.

Come on, you can do better than that if you want to insult me.

It wasn't an insult. People like you really do make me worry about the world.

I'm not asking that anybody do anything. Who is stopping you from having whatever kind of relationship you want with whoever you want?

Yes you are. You are asking that gays not be allowed to marry and that it should be restricted to only men and women. So you are stopping homosexuals from having the kind of relationship they want, i.e. marriage, and stopping them from having one with children (You do not think they should be able to adopt).

Since you already know what God has to say on the matter I'll leave you to recon with that on your own.

As H2Andy has said some Christians interpret the Bible differently. My parents, despite being very very religious during my youth, have gotten to know many gay people over the years and now do not see an issue with homosexuality or that it contradicts their Christian beliefs. Watching how their attitudes have changed getting to know gay friends and the like leaves me with hope that even people like you Mike, can change and become more accepting. I really think you should watch "For the Bible Tells Me So" to watch how other Christians view the word of God on homosexuality. It also has a story of a Christian woman whose lesbian daughter hung herself because she felt so rejected from her parents and others. Her mother is now a gay rights activist so people do change and I hope you are one of them.

I have to ask though, is sex all you think about?

No, only about 99% of the time actually.

 

[augk]

Maybe we are all just bacteria or cells in some cosmic petri dish and some beings are studying the growth of cells and bacteria in the dish. And it's all just some big experiment waiting to come to a conclusion. Which will win the battle the cells or the bacteria? I don't think any one hear today on this board will be alive to know the true story. So believe what you want and think about it while you are diving. How did this all come to be? Maybe you will find your answer within your self maybe not. just remember to watch your gauges because you could spend a lot of time thinking about this and before you know you will be out of air and just maybe then you will get your answer.:alien_2:

 

[ChilledMammal]

Who is it that you are saying doesn't "accept" homosexuals? Personally, I'm one of those "hate the sin but love the sinner" types.

While I believe the sentiment is meant in a good way. The effect of the statement on some gay people is really very destructive to them and their feelings of acceptance. Their homosexuality is a part of them. It's a bit like saying "I love you but I hate that you are heterosexual". It is not a full and complete love at all.

The hidden line in the statement is, you would not hate that part of them if they changed.

How would you feel if a person's whole acceptance of you was tied to you becoming gay? Say your loved ones said to you, look Mike I love you but I hate that you like women. For my full acceptance you need to become gay, pretty tough stuff to deal with.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Acceptance does not involve denying homosexuals rights, which you seem to want to do by not allowing them to partake in marriage and so on. So your last sentence is ridiculous. I am sure most homosexuals hearing your views would not feel 'accepted'.



Yes you are. You are asking that gays not be allowed to marry and that it should be restricted to only men and women. So you are stopping homosexuals from having the kind of relationship they want, i.e. marriage, and stopping them from having one with children (You do not think they should be able to adopt).

No. They can have whatever kind of relationship they want....but it isn't marriage.

As H2Andy has said some Christians interpret the Bible differently. My parents, despite being very very religious during my youth, have gotten to know many gay people over the years and now do not see an issue with homosexuality or that it contradicts their Christian beliefs. Watching how their attitudes have changed getting to know gay friends and the like leaves me with hope that even people like you Mike, can change and become more accepting. I really think you should watch "For the Bible Tells Me So" to watch how other Christians view the word of God on homosexuality. It also has a story of a Christian woman whose lesbian daughter hung herself because she felt so rejected from her parents and others. Her mother is now a gay rights activist so people do change and I hope you are one of them.

Who do you think you're talking to? Do you think that I don't have friends that are homosexuals? Guess again.

You try really hard to be a victim but you can't be my victim. Do you think that if you came out diving with me and mine or came to my home and ate and drank around my fire pit out back that you would be treated any differently than anyone else? I hate to burst your little victimized bubble but you wouldn't be.

 

[MikeFerrara]

While I believe the sentiment is meant in a good way. The effect of the statement on some gay people is really very destructive to them and their feelings of acceptance. Their homosexuality is a part of them. It's a bit like saying "I love you but I hate that you are heterosexual". It is not a full and complete love at all.

The hidden line in the statement is, you would not hate that part of them if they changed.

How would you feel if a person's whole acceptance of you was tied to you becoming gay? Say your loved ones said to you, look Mike I love you but I hate that you like women. For my full acceptance you need to become gay, pretty tough stuff to deal with.

You mean to tell me that in order to accept someone or to care about them that you have to agree with everything they do or think?

That's absolute nonsense. Do you really agree with the politics, religion, lifestyle ect of every single one of your friends? Have you ever raised a child? Did you agree with everything they ever did?

The fact is that the sexual habits of anybody I know won't ever be an issue unless they make it an issue. Do you think that I would agree with the sexual habits of every heterosexual that I know? I'll bet I wouldn't. Am I somehow obligated to? I don't think so and I don't know why a homosexual would be entitled to anything different.


Sorry, but what you're asking for here isn't "acceptance" or equal treatment. What you're asking for is special treatment.

 

[redacted]

No. They can have whatever kind of relationship they want....but it isn't marriage.

Mike - Where do you find your definition of marriage?

Using a google search yields numerous definitions that may include a homosexual union:
define:marriage - Google Search

 

[redacted]

Maybe we are all just bacteria or cells in some cosmic petri dish and some beings are studying the growth of cells and bacteria in the dish. And it's all just some big experiment waiting to come to a conclusion. Which will win the battle the cells or the bacteria? I don't think any one hear today on this board will be alive to know the true story. So believe what you want and think about it while you are diving. How did this all come to be? Maybe you will find your answer within your self maybe not. just remember to watch your gauges because you could spend a lot of time thinking about this and before you know you will be out of air and just maybe then you will get your answer.:alien_2:

Or maybe we are all gods and their are no "higher beings".