crazy headache and nitrox?

[dmaziuk]

So the way this argument works is,
- I'm diving air and not getting headaches,
- I'm diving nitrox and getting headaches,
Nitrox is the obvious variable, therefore

Its either
Contaminated Gas
Skip Breathing
Poor ventilation
Stress
Cold
A medical issue
Or a combination of the above.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I don't think there is any argument that diving Nitrox you feel better dive for dive.

I'll file this with the split fin and BP/W vs. BCD threads.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

And debunkable.

 

[KentB]

By chance did you test the tanks for CO?

no I did not, it crossed my mind but with the other 4 divers breathing the same air and fine I didnt. I will test it tomorrow at work.

Diving wrecks you tend to swim more than just looking at a reef. You could have easily skip-breathed or even over exerted yourself a bit which could cause headaches as well. There is no magic ingredient in nitrox that changes your physiology so it was likely a breathing issue.

id say 1/2 my dives are wreck dives this was just the first one Id done off a boat without a line to go up and down( the capilano is in a shipping line so it gets pulled off all the time apparently) I was more wondering if the added 02 expelled more CO2 chemistry was a long time ago haha. Im leaning towards a breathing issue as well. overextending myself also crossed my mind but I feel i woildnt feel totally find 10- 15 min later?

Your headache could have been due to the cold water exposure. How tight was your mask?, how much were you biting down on your reg mouth piece? How snug was your hood, especially around your neck?

-Z

same gear Ive used for every dive Ive ever done (hood drysuit mask regs ) except new BPW 10 dives ago and a few wetsuit dives in mexico
all dives but 2 in mexco have been between 44-48*F these dives temp was 47*

On the basis that the other divers in the group had gas from the same source at the same time, its unlikely that it is a CO issue. I would also expect the CCR diver to suffer more if it was contaminated gas.

Also, you don't say if the cylinders are your own, and you arrived with your cylinders full. If so that also adds weight to it not being contaminated gas.

As others have said, the most likely reason is skip breathing. Or a combination of skip breathing, workload and poor ventilation (very tight suit).
Diving an unfamiliar site, in challenging conditions in cold water would have added stress to the dive, which may also be a factor.

If you have the opportunity to do another dive in a more benign environment, perhaps at a site you know well in good conditions. If you get a repeat of the symptoms, then it would be worth checking with your doctor to ensure you don't have some underlying medical issue.

one of the guys runs a shop and filled all the tanks. the CCR diver was from out of town and runs a shop so Im assuming he filled his own tanks, but not 100% sure. I brought 4 tanks 149,120,2x117s and my buddy brought 1-120 and rented 3-133 from him. I dove my 149 and 2 rental 133 and my buddy took my 117s as hes a bit better on air than me. everyone else was fine. I dove the week before and did a 60 and 80 min dives. both over 100 feet. those were on air from my personal compressor.

One other thought, is high breathing resistance. i.e. a poorly maintained regulator. Which I guess falls under poor ventilation.

My reg is 2 years old and has been serviced twice, i did probably 30 dives first year and then it had some resistance at 60 feet or deeper and then they pulled it apart it was fine for a few dives and then back to resistance, they found a tiny hairline crack somewhere and said how my washing it was unbalancing the piston or some

 

[KentB]

So the way this argument works is,
- I'm diving air and not getting headaches,
- I'm diving nitrox and getting headaches,
Nitrox is the obvious variable, therefore

not what I meant at all.
I just mentioned this was my first time diving nitrox and was asking would increased O2 in breathing gas with subpar breathing techniques result in higher CO2? ive never noticed this on air but if higher 02 produced more co2 that could be a/the cause. forgive me though chemistry was a long time ago. no need to be an ass about it

 

[lv2dive]

Kent, I'm pretty sure @dmaziuk's response was not directed at you, but rather at everyone who is suggesting a cause other than enriched air.

I agree that it is unlikely that the higher O2 concentratation caused your headaches (correlation does not equal causation) and would be looking into factors suggested by @northernone and @Gareth J and others, as you have.

not what I meant at all.
I just mentioned this was my first time diving nitrox and was asking would increased O2 in breathing gas with subpar breathing techniques result in higher CO2? ive never noticed this on air but if higher 02 produced more co2 that could be a/the cause. forgive me though chemistry was a long time ago. no need to be an ass about it

 

[Dan]

For me (I’ve been diving about over 400 dives with Nitrox), Nitrox will give me less fatigue, less headache & more energy. I often miss no dive in a full week to 12 days of diving racking up 20-40 dives during such trip with 3-5 dives / day.

I did skip-breathing & a bit tense during diving when I was a newbie in order to keep up my air consumption with my 20+ yr experience dive buddy. Did get headaches afterwards. Those days I was consuming about 0.7-0.8 CFM of air.

After learning to use Nitrox, gaining more experience & relax, my air consumption steadily drops to 0.4 CFM. Now the NDL is my limit, not the air consumption.

 

[KentB]

Kent, I'm pretty sure @dmaziuk's response was not directed at you, but rather at everyone who is suggesting a cause other than enriched air.

I agree that it is unlikely that the higher O2 concentratation caused your headaches (correlation does not equal causation) and would be looking into factors suggested by @northernone and @Gareth J and others, as you have.

Ive re read it and it appears your correct, my apologies @dmaziuk

I will test the remaining tank I had filled for dive 4 but didnt do tomorrow.
I have lots of CO detectors (gas fitter) although none specific for scuba tank attachments but im sure if i let the tank flow across it for a few min ill get SOME reading if there is any CO present. the fact 4 other divers were diving the same mixes from the same guy at the same fill station at the same time makes me think its not CO but for the 50 cents an air fill costs me im willing to lose the nitrox fill.

the first site was def challenging getting down wasnt an issue but I was not having a good time holding a 5 min safety stop with 3 feet vis in mid ocean without a line. I managed it ok but i didnt enjoy it.
the wall was better as I had some reference and the 3rd dive vis was great probably in my top 10 dives for vis and I had an ascent line for reference.
Im really leaning towards just stress from work and mind was elsewhere. the 5 min mid water safety stop was new to me but apart from that id done much more challenging dives. I will report back with my CO findings.

thanks for all thoughts!!

 

[Dan]

Sometimes not all tanks have high CO. The early filling, when the compressor is still at normal temperature will be in spec. Towards the end, when it gets too hot, some sealing oil film in the compressor would get partially combust into CO at elevated temperature.

I carry & use this CO detector.

 

[dmaziuk]

not what I meant at all.

It wasn't your post I was responding to.

I believe in order to burn more O2 and produce more CO2 you have to at the very least work your muscles to dump the resulting energy. You, out of 5 people, could get CO-contaminated tanks, for two days in the row. And so on: it's all not impossible, but to me the probabilities sound about on par with getting headaches from nitrox:

(Disclamer: I saw this on the Internet so it must be true)

Supplementary oxygen for nonhypoxemic patients: O 2 much of a good thing?

In healthy adults, hyperoxia decreases cerebral blood flow by 11 to 33% [4, 5].
...

[4]Johnston AJ, Steine LA, Gupta AK, Menon DK: Cerebral oxygen vasoreactivity and cerebral tissue oxygen reactivity. Br J Anaesth 2003, 90: 774-786. 10.1093/bja/aeg104View ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
[5]Floyd TF, Clark JM, Gelfand R, Detre JA, Ratcliffe S, Guvakov D, Lambertsen CJ, Eckenhoff RG: Independent cerebral vasoconstrictive effects of hyperoxia and accompanying arterial hypocapnia at 1 ATA. J Appl Physiol 2003, 95: 2453-2461.View ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar